Troubleshoot last action hero

Pour les utilisateurs qui ont des difficultés avec l'anglais OU qui aiment mieux écrire en français.
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Gritboy
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Troubleshoot last action hero

Postby Gritboy » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:47 am

Je viens d'acquérir une last action hero avec quelques bug (que je me doutais lors de l'achat) et j'aurais besoin de quelqu'un qui en a une et qui s'y connais un peu en électronique pour comparer mes lectures au multimètre ..... si quelqu'un es dispo sa serais apprécier ! Merci a l'avance ;)
pinball: Cue ball wizard ,last action hero !
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pharoah007
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Re: Troubleshoot last action hero

Postby pharoah007 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:38 am

Let's start with what the problem is.
"I am content sitting on my lawnchair, watching the trainwrecks happen right in front of me. I can't save the world anymore."
-Sparky

"I don't give a Fvck"
- Honey Badger

"Bag of bananas for a buck"
- Allentown produce Nazi

" The Honey Badger wants some bananas"
- Woody

"Balsamic please"
- Best thing I ever heard at Steak n' Shakes

I am with us.

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Gritboy
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Re: Troubleshoot last action hero

Postby Gritboy » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:56 am

pharoah007 wrote:Let's start with what the problem is.


Pour débuter ,j'ai mon coil de VUK qui est griller ,il est en commande . Probablement que le transistor de celui ci est griller ....à la sortie du CPU j'ai 2.3 volt .
Mon right scoop aussi ne fonctionne pas ,Mais le coil semble bon ,j'ai 3.8 ohms . A la sortie du CPU j'ai 2.3 volt aussi .
Pour finir mon coil pour lancer la balle aussi ne fonctionne pas ....le coil aussi semble bon ,meme chose à la sortie du CPU 2.3 volt .
Je soupçonne les tip122 du CPU . Suis-je correct dans mon résonnement?
pinball: Cue ball wizard ,last action hero !
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cap
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Re: Troubleshoot last action hero

Postby cap » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:57 am

Sur ma Gottlieb, chaque bobbine a aussi sa fusible. Je ne sais pas si DE fait la meme chose.
Peux-tu confirmer si les transistors sont bons avec ton multimetre?
Rocky & Bullwinkle, Stargate, F14 Tomcat (in restoration)


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Gritboy
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Re: Troubleshoot last action hero

Postby Gritboy » Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:07 am

cap wrote:Sur ma Gottlieb, chaque bobbine a aussi sa fusible. Je ne sais pas si DE fait la meme chose.
Peux-tu confirmer si les transistors sont bons avec ton multimetre?


Pour confirmer si mes transistor sont beau ,je doit démonter le board pour prendre mes lectures derrière les transistors . Ils sont ont trop collé pour aller toucher avec la probe . C'est ma prochaine étape....
je me demandais si c'était fréquent pour les data east de griller des transistors ....et si oui lesquels ? Sur le PCU ou le PPB ?
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pharoah007
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Re: Troubleshoot last action hero

Postby pharoah007 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:52 am

Google translate is a bit foggy here for me.

Best of luck.
"I am content sitting on my lawnchair, watching the trainwrecks happen right in front of me. I can't save the world anymore."
-Sparky

"I don't give a Fvck"
- Honey Badger

"Bag of bananas for a buck"
- Allentown produce Nazi

" The Honey Badger wants some bananas"
- Woody

"Balsamic please"
- Best thing I ever heard at Steak n' Shakes

I am with us.

cap
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Re: Troubleshoot last action hero

Postby cap » Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:59 am

pharoah007 wrote:Google translate is a bit foggy here for me.
Best of luck.


He is asking if transistors are a common issue on DE when coils are not working. He says the transistors are too close together on the board to test with the DMM. He would have to remove the board first. He wants to get confirmation or other ideas before committing to do this.
Rocky & Bullwinkle, Stargate, F14 Tomcat (in restoration)

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Gritboy
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Re: Troubleshoot last action hero

Postby Gritboy » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:09 am

cap wrote:
pharoah007 wrote:Google translate is a bit foggy here for me.
Best of luck.


He is asking if transistors are a common issue on DE when coils are not working. He says the transistors are too close together on the board to test with the DMM. He would have to remove the board first. He wants to get confirmation or other ideas before committing to do this.


Thanks you ,you're a real translator !
pinball: Cue ball wizard ,last action hero !
jukebox: seeburg std2 vogue

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pharoah007
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Re: Troubleshoot last action hero

Postby pharoah007 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:27 am

cap wrote:
pharoah007 wrote:Google translate is a bit foggy here for me.
Best of luck.


He is asking if transistors are a common issue on DE when coils are not working. He says the transistors are too close together on the board to test with the DMM. He would have to remove the board first. He wants to get confirmation or other ideas before committing to do this.


I have never had to replace a transistor on a DE, only Williams and Stern (but Stern and DE are close to the same)

I do not think transistors can be tested in place on the PCB. Yu have to remove them to test...and at that point, just put a new one in ;)
"I am content sitting on my lawnchair, watching the trainwrecks happen right in front of me. I can't save the world anymore."
-Sparky

"I don't give a Fvck"
- Honey Badger

"Bag of bananas for a buck"
- Allentown produce Nazi

" The Honey Badger wants some bananas"
- Woody

"Balsamic please"
- Best thing I ever heard at Steak n' Shakes

I am with us.

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Azatotht
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Re: Troubleshoot last action hero

Postby Azatotht » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:09 pm

Je peux me tromper mais pour au moins tester si le coil fonctionne et si le filage est bon du transistor vers le coil, tu peux momentanément grounder le bout de métal du transistor sur le ground de la machine.

Alligator clip, une clips sur le bout du transistor, avec l'autre bout touche rapidement sur le ground (siderail ou le fil de ground lui-même) et si le coil/filage est correct, tu sauras que le transistor est peut-être le problème (car le coil va actionner). Si le coil marche pas, ben y'auras certainement autre chose (coil brûlé peut-être).
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Mrhide
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Re: Troubleshoot last action hero

Postby Mrhide » Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:26 pm

2d. Before Turning the Game On: Quick and Easy Transistor
Testing.
Before ever turning on a new DataEast/Sega game, test all the TIP122/102 solenoid
transistors. Do this while in the backbox (examining the fuses and the GI
connectors). A blown transistor can really confuse a game. This is the procedure to
use, and it only takes about 60 seconds to test all the TIP122/102 transistors:
Make sure the game is off.
Put the DMM (digital multi meter) on ohms (buzz tone).
Put one lead on the ground strap in the backbox.
Touch the other lead to the metal tab on the TIP122/102 transistors.
If zero ohms (buzz) is shown, the transistor is bad! (shorted on).
There are a number of TIP122/102 transistors on the DataEast/Sega CPU board:
Q8-Q13: located at the upper right (special coil transistors).
Q23-Q30: located at the lower left (constant power transistors).
Q39-Q46: located at the lower left (multiplexed transistors).
Q72-Q79: located at the lower right (lamp matrix return rows).
Replace the bad TIP122 transistor(s) with a more robust TIP102 immediately before
turning the game on. Replace the associated pre-driver 2N4401 transistor too.



A very good idea for any unknown game just purchased is to check all the coils'
resistance. If the game is new to you, and you have not powered it on, a quick
check of coil resistance will tell you a lot about your new game. This takes about
one minute and can save you hours of repair and diagnosing work.
Any coil that has locked on (usually due to a short CPU board transistor) will heat up
and have a lower total resistance. This happens because the painted enamel
insulation on the coil's wire burns, causing the windings to short against each other.
This will lower the coil's resistance, causing the coil to get even hotter. Within a
minute or so the coil becomes a dead short (less than 2 ohms), and usually blows a
fuse.
If the CPU board transistor is repaired, and the game is powered on with a deadshorted
coil, this will blow the same driver transistor(s) again when the coil is fired
by the game for the first time! There is no sense making more work for yourself. So
take 60 seconds and check all the coils' resistance BEFORE powering the game on
for the first time.
In order to check coil resistance, put your DMM on its lowest resistance setting.
Then put the DMM's red and black leads on each coil's lugs. A resistance of 2.5
ohms or greater should be seen. Anything less than 2.5 ohms, and the coil and/or
driving transistor may be bad. Now remove the wire from one of the lugs of the coil,
and test the coil again. If the resistance is still the same (low), the coil or diode is
bad (and also perhaps the driving transistor). If the resistance is higher than 2.5
ohms, the coil is good but the solenoid driver board transistor is shorted and will
need to be replaced. Lastly, the coil's 1N4004 diode could be shorted too, giving a
false low coil resistance. Cut one diode leg from a coil lug and retest the coil's ohms.
Remember when reconnecting the wires to the coil that the power wire (usually two
wires or thicker wires) goes to the coil's lug with the BANDED side of the diode
attached. The thinner wire is the coil's return path to ground via the driver
transistor and attaches to the coil lug with the non-banded side of the diode
attached.
If a low resistance coil is found, also suspect the associated CPU board transistor as
bad. A low resistance coil is a red flag, a warning, that there may be problems on
the CPU board. Actually with System11 games, if a low resistance coil is found, I
can pretty much guarantee that you will need to (should) replace of course the coil,
but also all the silicon devices in its ground path (TIP driver transistor and probably
the pre-driver transistor)
LF: EGRET 2 or 3 + Shoot 'em up PCB. Let me know what you have!
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pharoah007
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Re: Troubleshoot last action hero

Postby pharoah007 » Mon Sep 11, 2017 2:50 pm

That Pre power test makes loads of scene Mrhide, good call.
"I am content sitting on my lawnchair, watching the trainwrecks happen right in front of me. I can't save the world anymore."
-Sparky

"I don't give a Fvck"
- Honey Badger

"Bag of bananas for a buck"
- Allentown produce Nazi

" The Honey Badger wants some bananas"
- Woody

"Balsamic please"
- Best thing I ever heard at Steak n' Shakes

I am with us.

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Gritboy
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Re: Troubleshoot last action hero

Postby Gritboy » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:46 pm

J'ai démonter mon board cpu et j'ai tester tout les transistor ,ils réagisse tous de la même façon avec le multimètre ..... ils on l'air bon ,j'ai essayer de shorter les transistor comme azatoth l'a mentionner ,les coil qui fonctionne normalement fonctionne ,Mais ceux en problème ne fonctionne pas . Je mesure le voltage à la sorti du cpu et j'ai 2.3 volt alors que les coil qui fonctionne ont 41 volt ? J'ai environ 4 à 5 ohms par coil ,je suppose qu'ils sont bon .
En passant Merci pour vos suggestion !
By the way ,thanks for tour tips!
pinball: Cue ball wizard ,last action hero !
jukebox: seeburg std2 vogue

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Gritboy
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Re: Troubleshoot last action hero

Postby Gritboy » Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:49 am

Je crois être sur une piste ...je doute un transistor tip36c du ppb board (celui du VUk dont le coil a brûler) . Dans le bulletin de service que mr hide m'a fait parvenir, il dise que les coil sont en "daisy chain connection" et qu'un coil qui ne fonctionne pas peux en affecter d'autre . Serais ce possible que les coil brancher après mon VUK ne fonctionne plus à cause que j'en ai un de griller ?
pinball: Cue ball wizard ,last action hero !
jukebox: seeburg std2 vogue

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Gritboy
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Re: Troubleshoot last action hero

Postby Gritboy » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:06 am

Petit update, ma fuse f8 étais grillé ,ce qui causais mon problème de coil de right scoop et de mon coil de ball launcher. Mon coil de vuk griller, étais causé par mon transistor Q4 du PPB qui était short. Maintenant tout est fonctionnelle!

In this world the bad guy can win !
pinball: Cue ball wizard ,last action hero !
jukebox: seeburg std2 vogue

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Dave W.
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Re: Troubleshoot last action hero

Postby Dave W. » Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:53 am

Merci d'avoir partagé la solution finale. Ça pourra potentiellement aider d'autres avec un problème semblable

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Gritboy
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Re: Troubleshoot last action hero

Postby Gritboy » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:12 pm

Dave W. wrote:Merci d'avoir partagé la solution finale. Ça pourra potentiellement aider d'autres avec un problème semblable


Pas de problème ! C'est ce que je m'était dit ;)
pinball: Cue ball wizard ,last action hero !
jukebox: seeburg std2 vogue



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