Flight 2000 restore

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Espo1713
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Flight 2000 restore

Postby Espo1713 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:35 am

I am trying to get a 1980 flight2000 machine working. When I first got it, main power fuse kept popping and couldn't get it to boot. I replaced the original bridge rectifier board with a new one and am able to get power to the machine. all the lights cycle, numbers on the score show 0's. now when it boots the red light on MPU board goes through the 7 flash cycle[1--1--12345] (also makes noise while flashing, not sure if that's normal) but then I hear a constant loud static through the speakers and doesn't spit the balls out of the hopper on the playfield.

Below are my test point readings if this helps [value from diagram]. I have a printout of the manual but not sure where to get the readings for the MPU board - could be in there but not seeing it.

Rectifier Board
TP1: 6V [5.4V]
TP2: 240V [230V]
TP3: 14V [11.9V]
TP4: 7.0V [7.3V]
TP5: 46.2V [43V]

Solenoid Board
TP1: 5.5V [5V]
TP2: 183V [185V]
TP3: 5.2V [5V]
TP4: 250V [230V]
TP5: 14V [11.9V]
TP6: 5.3V [5V]
TP7: 5.2V

MPU BOARD
TP1: 5.35V [??]
TP2: 14.7V [??]
TP3: 23.0V [??]
TP4: 0.00V [??]
TP5: 5.35V [??]

I also have a video of the boot if that can be of any help. file too large to attach but can email it if needed. Any help would be greatly appreciated

Espo1713
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Re: Flight 2000 restore

Postby Espo1713 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:56 pm


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sylvain
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Re: Flight 2000 restore

Postby sylvain » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:22 pm

The dings during MPU boot are normal.
But the machine does not quite appear to enter Attract mode, e.g. not flashing displays to show High Score to date, and the controlled lamps are not flashing on the playfield.

I would try two things:
- make sure 3 balls are present in the through (they also need to be detected by the switches and the MPU switch matrix)
- with machine powered OFF, make sure the ribbon cables are properly connected (e.g. pin 1 of the MPU top connector going to pin 1 of the sound board connector, and no skipped pin between the two ribbon connectors.

Next - with power OFF, disconnect the ribbon cables MPU-sound.
At power-up, does the machine now go into attract mode and can start a game if a credit is added, game started with 3-balls in the through?

Good luck!
- Sylvain.
Looking for Bally Star-Jet, Capersville or The Wiggler, Williams Magic City, Grand Lizard, Swords of Fury, 1986 Pinstar Gamatron, and a few others.
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Re: Flight 2000 restore

Postby Sparky » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:41 pm

sylvain wrote:- make sure 3 balls are present in the through (they also need to be detected by the switches and the MPU switch matrix)


OMG... EVERYONE gets caught with that one at some point... LOL Damn classic Sterns.

Yeah... if your credit display is the only one showing anything, and it is all zeros, put in some balls. LOL
Now playing in Sparky's Power Station: Way too much shit...


Espo1713
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Re: Flight 2000 restore

Postby Espo1713 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:35 pm

No I dont have the 3 balls in. Bought the machine at a garage sale, one was missing and the thing probably hasn't been booted in years - wondering in the hi score maybe is reset to zero.

When i removed the ribbon cables the machine didnt boot properly after i replaced them (flashes once then stops). but i get the 7 flashes without the ribbon attached.

Would not having a 3rd ball stop the machine from booting?
Currently the 2 are located at the area circled - is this where it should be on start up?
ball-location.png


Thanks for the input

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cap
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Re: Flight 2000 restore

Postby cap » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:14 pm

This video shows the balls are not always there at startup.
https://youtu.be/ukCSi8NkDSw?t=519
but I bet it's normal if there is 0, 1 or 2 balls there.

I suggest you drain the balls manually for one last try before you go buy or borrow a 3rd ball.
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Re: Flight 2000 restore

Postby DrDude » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:03 pm

Espo1713 wrote:No I dont have the 3 balls in. Bought the machine at a garage sale, one was missing and the thing probably hasn't been booted in years - wondering in the hi score maybe is reset to zero.

When i removed the ribbon cables the machine didnt boot properly after i replaced them (flashes once then stops). but i get the 7 flashes without the ribbon attached.

Would not having a 3rd ball stop the machine from booting?
Currently the 2 are located at the area circled - is this where it should be on start up?
ball-location.png

Thanks for the input

It is normal for F2K to have balls in the ball-walker on startup (left-over from previous game-play), so the game is supposed to go into ball-hunt mode on startup to kick them out. In other words, if there are not 3-balls in the outlane on startup, the ball-walker and the up-kicker should start activating to "hunt" for the missing balls, and kick them down. If it doesn't find them after about 10 or so attempts, it will go into attract anyways.

Do your solenoids work? If there is not ball-hunt on startup, I would suspect the answer is no. Is the under-playfield fuse burnt out?
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Nineball, Seawitch, Lightning, Cheetah
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Catacomb, Solar Fire, Balls-a-Poppin Seawitch backglass
Lust-worthy: Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

Espo1713
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Re: Flight 2000 restore

Postby Espo1713 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:30 pm

When I try a test button nothing happens so I'm assuming you're right about the solenoids not working. Is there an easy way to test even after I check all the fuses? or could there be an isuue with the test button itself. Is this something that's easily replaceable?
All the lights seem to be cycling when it starts below is video of the boot up without the ribbon cables to the sound board plugged in. Not sure if that helps any
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ef2CM ... yQTeAuESNY

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Re: Flight 2000 restore

Postby Espo1713 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:43 pm

I am going to get some balls on prder to test with 3. But in the meantime i looked at the fuse underneath and tests ok for continuity but no voltage is going through it when i check with my voltmeter. Is this because the game isnt booted or is there no power to the bottom of the game? My test points on the solenoid driver board appear to check out
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sylvain
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Re: Flight 2000 restore

Postby sylvain » Fri Nov 10, 2017 10:09 pm

Good input from DrDude above, I have not fixed a Flight 2000 recently.

Whew, your machine appears to need a lot of help...

It is normal to measure about zero volts across a good fuse, as a good fuse is like a wire or a short circuit, so no real voltage drop across it.
The proper method of testing a fuse is that it should be taken out and measured with a multimeter in ohms or continuity scale.
Should read near 0 ohms (e.g. short circuit).

What is the amp rating of that fuse under the playfield? It looks to be way more than a 1.25A slow blow from the look of it...

Check the solenoid fuse on your new power supply.
If there is a shorted drive transistor on the solenoid driver board, and or burned coil(s) under the playfield, plus it appears
you are overfused under the playfield, the solenoid fuse (typically a 4 or 5A) could have blown on the rectifier board.

For the sound - make sure the pins are properly aligned (pin1 MPU to pin1 sound, etc.). You might have bad ribbon cables too.

-Sylvain.
Looking for Bally Star-Jet, Capersville or The Wiggler, Williams Magic City, Grand Lizard, Swords of Fury, 1986 Pinstar Gamatron, and a few others.
Collecting & repairing electro-mechanical and solid state pinball machines with quality and care for over 35 years.
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Espo1713
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Re: Flight 2000 restore

Postby Espo1713 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:24 am

Thanks for the input. Ill do some checks this week when I order parts post any updates

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Re: Flight 2000 restore

Postby DrDude » Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:45 am

sylvain wrote:Check the solenoid fuse on your new power supply.
If there is a shorted drive transistor on the solenoid driver board, and or burned coil(s) under the playfield, plus it appears
you are overfused under the playfield, the solenoid fuse (typically a 4 or 5A) could have blown on the rectifier board.

You wouldn't get the 7th flash without the 43v Solenoid voltage being there, so I don't think the main power-supply fuse can be blown: I don't think that can be the problem.

If the game doesn't go into attract (eventually) or respond to the test-switch, it may have crashed the MPU after the 7th flash. This behaviour can be caused by a bad 555 chip in the NMI interrupt/strobe circuit, but there are many other potential causes.

One more thing you can try: Putting all the MPU DIP-switches in the "off" position (or is it the "on" position? I honestly forget) should have the same effect as pushing the coindoor test button, and put the game immediately into test-mode. Try that and see if you get somewhere (you need to toggle the DIPs "off" and reboot for this to work).
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Nineball, Seawitch, Lightning, Cheetah
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Catacomb, Solar Fire, Balls-a-Poppin Seawitch backglass
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sylvain
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Re: Flight 2000 restore

Postby sylvain » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:11 am

DrDude wrote:If the game doesn't go into attract (eventually) or respond to the test-switch, it may have crashed the MPU after the 7th flash. This behaviour can be caused by a bad 555 chip in the NMI interrupt/strobe circuit, but there are many other potential causes.

True - Had one case with a Bally MPU many moons ago, it was actually the timing capacitor attached to that 555 timer.
Also had a case with bad ribbons (to sound board).

For safety, the OP needs to check and replace the fuse under the playfield with a proper rated one, if it is confirmed that the current fuse is above the expected 1.25A SB.

Update: I just checked the latest video from link above post, and the game appears to be in attract mode, that is good news.

Once power/fuses are checked (and they should be OK as highlighted by DrDude above), then connector J4 on the MPU is the next suspect to check, if the MPU or an original MPU ever had corrosion. I have fixed countless machines that had solenoid issues (when all powers and MPU were good) by replacing those 0.100 Molex pins and headers, after close inspection confirmed some pins inside the housing were broken, corroded or no longer making contact...
Next is the small bottom right connector on the Solenoid Driver...
Also need to check the switch matrix connector J2 on the MPU in a similar fashion...
Looking for Bally Star-Jet, Capersville or The Wiggler, Williams Magic City, Grand Lizard, Swords of Fury, 1986 Pinstar Gamatron, and a few others.
Collecting & repairing electro-mechanical and solid state pinball machines with quality and care for over 35 years.
Serious and fun hobby, powerful nostalgia !

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Re: Flight 2000 restore

Postby Espo1713 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:57 pm

DrDude wrote:You wouldn't get the 7th flash without the 43v Solenoid voltage being there, so I don't think the main power-supply fuse can be blown: I don't think that can be the problem.

If the game doesn't go into attract (eventually) or respond to the test-switch, it may have crashed the MPU after the 7th flash. This behaviour can be caused by a bad 555 chip in the NMI interrupt/strobe circuit, but there are many other potential causes.

One more thing you can try: Putting all the MPU DIP-switches in the "off" position (or is it the "on" position? I honestly forget) should have the same effect as pushing the coindoor test button, and put the game immediately into test-mode. Try that and see if you get somewhere (you need to toggle the DIPs "off" and reboot for this to work).


Appreciate the help, but have a couple questions - this is the first pin ive worked on so these may be basic

I checked it out yesterday and noticed that in the manual it says after the 7th flash the light should stay dimmly lit on the MPU. but in my case the light goes off - would this mean that it is crashing after the last flash? would the playfield lights still cycle if this is the case?

Not sure what is supposed to happen when it goes into attract mode, the only thing i get is the cycling of the lights on the playfield but the numbers on the display still stay at 0's even with the dip switch settings. no movement from any of the solenoids. Should the solenoids be kicking a ball into the playfield?

What is a 555 chip?

Also where is the best place to buy those molex connectors - I think I'm going to try and re pin all the connections and see what happens.

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sylvain
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Re: Flight 2000 restore

Postby sylvain » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:25 pm

Before blindly replacing Molex pins - which could make things worse if you have no previous experience doing this,
I would first confirm if there is proper solenoid voltage, fuses and wiring between the Rectifier, Solenoid Driver boards, and the coils.

Easy to perform this quick check:
Do the coils activate one at a time if you ground the tab of one drive transistor at a time quickly (less than one second) with an alligator clip ?
Those drive transistors are all in a row at the bottom of the Solenoid Driver board.

I do not recommend attempting to replace soldered chips and board components if you have never done this before.
The 555 is a small 8-pin timing chip soldered on the MPU board, towards the bottom right of the board. They rarely fail, but sometimes do.
The trick is always to perform proper troubleshooting and identify what is wrong - before attempting to replace components.

pinrepair.com used to have a useful book on how to go about troubleshooting and repairing Bally and Stern games, and safety;
now it is only available for paying members I think. There are however other Bally/Stern pinball repair references available on the web.

Bonne chance!
-Sylvain.
Looking for Bally Star-Jet, Capersville or The Wiggler, Williams Magic City, Grand Lizard, Swords of Fury, 1986 Pinstar Gamatron, and a few others.
Collecting & repairing electro-mechanical and solid state pinball machines with quality and care for over 35 years.
Serious and fun hobby, powerful nostalgia !

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Re: Flight 2000 restore

Postby DrDude » Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:44 pm

Espo1713 wrote:Appreciate the help, but have a couple questions - this is the first pin ive worked on so these may be basic

I checked it out yesterday and noticed that in the manual it says after the 7th flash the light should stay dimmly lit on the MPU. but in my case the light goes off - would this mean that it is crashing after the last flash? would the playfield lights still cycle if this is the case?

Not sure what is supposed to happen when it goes into attract mode, the only thing i get is the cycling of the lights on the playfield but the numbers on the display still stay at 0's even with the dip switch settings. no movement from any of the solenoids. Should the solenoids be kicking a ball into the playfield?

What is a 555 chip?

The 7th flash can be a bit difficult to distinguish (since the LED comes "on" at the beginning, and that's not one of the flashes), and the "dimmly lit" stage is also quite subtle, but if the playfield lights are cycling, you are in attract.

Did you check your under playfield-fuse? No solenoids without it! With no balls in the trough, the games should, on power-up, start trying to kick the ball-walker several times hunting for the missing balls. Also, connections between the MPU and the Solenoid Driver board can fail which would also cause no solenoids. Really there are a lot of things that can cause such problems.

The 555 chip is on the MPU, a tiny IC with only 8 legs. If you are in attract, don't worry about that, it must be fine.
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Nineball, Seawitch, Lightning, Cheetah
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Catacomb, Solar Fire, Balls-a-Poppin Seawitch backglass
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Re: Flight 2000 restore

Postby Completist » Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:36 pm

After the 7th flash the attract mode is cycling of playfield lamps. No sounds or anything fancy in attract. Only if the 3 balls are not detected in the trough will the ball walker solenoids fire acting like a ball search. As for mpu light it goes out (not dimly lit) - at least mine does. Displays will toggle between last score and high score to date. But if you have nothing in memory i'm guessing you'd get zeros.
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Re: Flight 2000 restore

Postby uberhare » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:02 pm

I have a working F2K if you need anything checked. It does have an aftermarket CPU so I can't check anything on the board for you.
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Supersunny76
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Re: Flight 2000 restore

Postby Supersunny76 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:24 pm

Hi guys. Need help...
Abit of a repost but need more help... Hi. Have a flight 2000. Had it for 6months or so..not working and started to look under the playfield. The GU lights work and a buzz from.the speaker.The rectifier looks like a hack job. When i did turn it on.. it blows F4 7amp slo blow 43vdc. So i unplugged everything from the back box (solenoid ,light board and mpu board. Ive looked agaon online and the manual and looks like the header pins are not in..lower and left of the power broad. And wire has been soldered on to...well.. i dunno what it is.. thats above the speaker... just need the clour pins for all three headers at the bottom of the board. Colour in order if any one can help me...thanks
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Re: Flight 2000 restore

Postby Supersunny76 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:48 pm

Heres another video.. looks like the wires reach around to a hear sink or summit... and the header pins have been cut.. i will be pulling out to have easy on working on it...

https://youtu.be/mt2H6oCM0Wc



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