TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

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andre
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TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby andre » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:29 pm

New to me TSPP.


-Bought with a disclose reset problem


1-) Previous owner mentionned the reset problem.Only happened once in about 50 games since i got it.
Middle of a game and suddenly the game stopped,no more flipper or coils,lights were dimmed and the DMD is showing "open the coin door".Couldn t start another game so i open the coin door and the game goes into attract mode like when you turn on the game,DMD and lights are normal but i lost all settimgs and high scores.
This is my first "modern game" and thought that a "normal" reset would just send the game to attract mode without losing all my settings and scores...
Can someone explain what is happening and guide me to what i have to check to begin troubleshoothing this issue ?

2-)I'm losing the DMD sometimes for 2-3 minutes then it comes back on like normal.
When it does that, the red LED on the DMD is solidly on, no flashing.Played a 30 minutes game without problems after it did it twice in the previous game.
Ribbon cable? If the red LED is on does that mean that i can rule out the power connector to the DMD ?
Thanks for any help and leads as to what to look for. It s really appreciated!

André

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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby Dave W. » Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:11 pm

First thing i would check is for any battery corrosion around the batteries. Corrosion on WhiteStar boards can be nasty as sensitive components are immediately underneath. Might not be your issue, but if haven't already inspected that area, you should anyways.
Carefully inspect the legs on chips below the battery pack, all the way to the bottom of the board. The batteries themselves might look clean now, but at one point have been leaking crap onto components and someone cleaned up most of the mess

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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby cap » Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:40 pm

A quick search leads to many potential problems.
It could be dead batteries, a bad battery holder, battery leak damage on the board or connectors, a problem with the high voltage switches activated when the door closes, a blown transistor, etc...

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic ... tern-rbion
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic ... launch-etc
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic ... -game-play

After you check the batteries and leakage damage, I suggest you investigate the memory protect switch (See top right of page DR1 of the manual).
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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby andre » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:56 am

Thanks!
Will take a look at this tonite and report back!


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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby andre » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:16 am

Thanks!
Will take a look at this week and report back!

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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby Hoser » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:16 pm

For intermittent problems also check all pins on boards related to power to your DMD.

With the machine off, see if you can wiggle any of them with your finger to check for cold solder joints.

If you have a Digital Multi-Meter, try and check for continuity from the pins to DMD.

Machines shake a lot with coils firing all the time and our nudging. If there is a cold solder somewhere, it could lose connection for a split second with one of those shakes, and cause a sporadic problem.
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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby andre » Tue Nov 06, 2018 1:18 pm

Thanks Hoser!
Yep,planning to take the board out for visual inspection. I had cracked solder board pins on my RFM a while ago and it was clearly visible under my giant magnifying lens.
Thanks and good luck with your party this week end!
André

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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby Hoser » Tue Nov 06, 2018 3:39 pm

andre wrote:Thanks Hoser!
Yep,planning to take the board out for visual inspection. I had cracked solder board pins on my RFM a while ago and it was clearly visible under my giant magnifying lens.
Thanks and good luck with your party this week end!
André


Thanks, and good luck finding the issue.

If you get the chance, you should pass by this weekend. Take your pick (Friday, Saturday, or Sunday)

Maybe you could win a free MIX for your new TSPP?

Friends and Family are welcome too.
It wasn't just about flashing lights and pinball machines blowing up and things like that. It was about using encores, bringing back the good songs and using techniques that I knew about from rock performance. - Pete Townshend

http://PinballMIX.com (Put Your Music in Your Machine)

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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby andre » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:42 pm

That's a very cool thing to do to open your place and gameroom for everyone to enjoy.
I m a bit far in the woods so can t make it ...but the good news is i think i found the cause of my DMD issue.
That connector in the back of the DMD was so loose i could remove barely touching it!
Second good news is,incredibly,i had everything to repin and a new connector right in my stuff i bought 8 years ago for my first ever pin that i never got to do.
Also measured my 5 volts and it was at 5.057 in attract mode.

Question for the experts: can the +5v fluctuate while under load in gameplay and let s say, a 5 balls multiball is going
on and a lot of coils action ?

Pix of the DMD loose connector...
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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby cap » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:05 pm

andre wrote:can the +5v fluctuate while under load in gameplay and let s say, a 5 balls multiball is going
on and a lot of coils action ?


The error you see is often associated with having no high voltage, so low voltage like 5V is not my first suspect.
I always found that error message misleading. Maybe it means "Opened Coin Door" instead.
The memory protect switch is designed to turn off high-voltage if the door is open.
Maybe the switch malfunctions and it thinks the door is open when it is still closed.
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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby andre » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:20 pm

Hi Cap!
I looked at my manual yesterday after you referrred me to it.
On the same page,there is also a pix of an error message ''open coin door'' and the meaning of it.You'll get that message at every power up if there is no batteries or dead ones in the machine.Checked them tonite,pulled them all out with machine off.
1.514 v on all 3.Put them back in,power up and got the ''open coin door'' due to removing batteries with machine off...
I think...

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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby cap » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:24 am

Yes, dead batteries was the first cause I listed. Since the batteries are good, I would check the battery holder next. What voltage is coming out of the holder?
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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby Hoser » Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:01 pm

andre wrote:Hi Cap!
I looked at my manual yesterday after you referrred me to it.
On the same page,there is also a pix of an error message ''open coin door'' and the meaning of it.You'll get that message at every power up if there is no batteries or dead ones in the machine.Checked them tonite,pulled them all out with machine off.
1.514 v on all 3.Put them back in,power up and got the ''open coin door'' due to removing batteries with machine off...
I think...


As Cap has said, quite possibly linked to your battery holder. If the problem happened worse after you put the batteries back in, sounds like there may even be a cold solder connecting the battery holder.

Probably be good to install a remote battery holder while you are at it. You will also be able to see if there is more evidence of hacking or damage once you get the existing holder off.

Check section 4.2.1: http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Sega/Stern_White_Star_Repair#Relocating_the_Battery_from_the_MPU_board

For the part: https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/RBH073
It wasn't just about flashing lights and pinball machines blowing up and things like that. It was about using encores, bringing back the good songs and using techniques that I knew about from rock performance. - Pete Townshend

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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby andre » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:14 pm

Soooooo,you guys mean it's not normal that my battery holder is a bit loose from the board ?
I can rotate one corner 1/4"...
Should it be tight as in not bulging at all from the board ?

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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby cap » Wed Nov 07, 2018 1:27 pm

andre wrote:Soooooo,you guys mean it's not normal that my battery holder is a bit loose from the board ?
I can rotate one corner 1/4"...
Should it be tight as in not bulging at all from the board ?

I don't know, I never had that board generation in my collection.
What matters is the electrical connection, but surely, a moving battery holder will not help.
I would look at the schematics and check if the holder supplies the voltage where it is supposed to go.
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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby andre » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:21 pm

Tabarnak!
Ok.Display problem is back.As suggested,i checked voltages at the display power supply board.No +12vDC.
Removed the connector and measured right on the pin of CN2,no +12v DC.
Checked voltages at CN1 and everything is ok according to pinwiki 4.9.1
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?t ... ame_Resets

The -100v reads at -91 but since the display is not working i think it's normal if you ckecked the pinwiki table...
Is the display power supply defect or am i missing something more the a couples of bolts and nuts?
I also reflowed all the pins on the displaypower supply board for good measure.2 had cracks.
5 hours of trouble shoothing and trying to understand schematics and how it works.
My head is spinning...Help!

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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby cap » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:29 pm

Do you have access to another compatible machine that you could swap parts with to diagnose the problem faster?
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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby andre » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:15 am

Not another Stern.TSPP is the only one...

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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby Hoser » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:55 am

I know this may be more common on Data Easts, and I am not too familiar with Whitestar boards, but could one of your fuse holders be in bad shape? Inspect them. If one of the voltages drops completely intermittently, that could be a place to look.
It wasn't just about flashing lights and pinball machines blowing up and things like that. It was about using encores, bringing back the good songs and using techniques that I knew about from rock performance. - Pete Townshend

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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby andre » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:14 am

Wish i would know how to post a screen shot from page 113 of tspp manual.
Pin 7 of CN2 is supposed to have +12v but i read 0.
Led 203 wich is +12v is solidly on on the power driver board.
But i think the +12v for the DMD is coming from the display power supply board as there is no +12v coming in on the board on CN1.
Clear as mud ?

Edit:don t know if it s readable...
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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby cap » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:48 am

I would not worry about the missing +12V on CN2P7. Manuals have bugs. This could be one of them.
Instead, I would trace the +12V input of the DMD Board P1P7 at the left bottom of p112
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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby andre » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:04 am

P1 is the other end of CN2 connector...

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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby cap » Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:56 pm

The schematics on p113 does not show where the +12V is coming from.
I would unscrew that board and follow the traces under the board.
The manual does not show the schematics of the DMD display, so it's hard to know if that 12V is actually used.
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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby andre » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:40 pm

I think it s generated by the display power supply board itself through some diodes and whatever electronic bidules... :mrgreen:

Merci pour l aide!

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Re: TSPP:Reset and DMD problems.

Postby cap » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:49 pm

andre wrote:I think it s generated by the display power supply board itself through some diodes and whatever electronic bidules... :mrgreen:

Merci pour l aide!


Yes, that's what I suggested you trace back to see why it is 0V instead of 12V.
You can also start by measuring the inputs on CN1 of the Display Power Supply Board.
I'm surprised they claim you get +18VDC directly from the transformer, AC makes more sense.
I would not be surprised if there are one or more bugs in that part of the documentation.
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