Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

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redketchup
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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby redketchup » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:22 am

Thank you very much for your help... I feel less alone with this!
Bally Centaur, Fathom, Stern Big Game, Flight 2000, Quicksilver, Catacomb, Stargazer, Nineball, Metallica Pro, Iron Maiden Pro, Wurlitzer 700, 750e, 1100, 1900, 1700, Rockola 1428, tempo 1, seeburg HF 100R, VL 200, Ami I
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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby DrDude » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:26 am

redketchup wrote:I run an original MPU 200. game was working before playfield swap and coin door resto... everything was disassemble for 4 month... so I assumed anything can happen...

Will try the coin switch test before and try to swap the MPU for an other one know working

Yeah, the RAM theory was a stretch, but MPU-200 can have quirks with dodgey 5101 chips!

Given the history (problem cropped up after playfield-swap/door-resto), it's possible you've got a wiring error on the harness: Basically, possible swap of one or more pins on the main harness connectors. That is a real pain to find, as the wire-colours/stripes are very hard to see, but you only care about the switch-matrix row/column lines, and that's only a double-handful of wires to check.
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Nineball, Seawitch, Lightning, Cheetah
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Catacomb, Solar Fire, Balls-a-Poppin Seawitch backglass
Lust-worthy: Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby DrDude » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:27 am

redketchup wrote:Thank you very much for your help... I feel less alone with this!

Gino, it's your Nineball that we care about, not so much you!

(just kidding..)
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Nineball, Seawitch, Lightning, Cheetah
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Catacomb, Solar Fire, Balls-a-Poppin Seawitch backglass
Lust-worthy: Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby redketchup » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:10 am

DrDude wrote:
redketchup wrote:Thank you very much for your help... I feel less alone with this!

Gino, it's your Nineball that we care about, not so much you!

(just kidding..)


LOL!
Bally Centaur, Fathom, Stern Big Game, Flight 2000, Quicksilver, Catacomb, Stargazer, Nineball, Metallica Pro, Iron Maiden Pro, Wurlitzer 700, 750e, 1100, 1900, 1700, Rockola 1428, tempo 1, seeburg HF 100R, VL 200, Ami I
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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby redketchup » Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:11 am

DrDude wrote:
redketchup wrote:I run an original MPU 200. game was working before playfield swap and coin door resto... everything was disassemble for 4 month... so I assumed anything can happen...

Will try the coin switch test before and try to swap the MPU for an other one know working

Yeah, the RAM theory was a stretch, but MPU-200 can have quirks with dodgey 5101 chips!

Given the history (problem cropped up after playfield-swap/door-resto), it's possible you've got a wiring error on the harness: Basically, possible swap of one or more pins on the main harness connectors. That is a real pain to find, as the wire-colours/stripes are very hard to see, but you only care about the switch-matrix row/column lines, and that's only a double-handful of wires to check.


I will double check that also!
Bally Centaur, Fathom, Stern Big Game, Flight 2000, Quicksilver, Catacomb, Stargazer, Nineball, Metallica Pro, Iron Maiden Pro, Wurlitzer 700, 750e, 1100, 1900, 1700, Rockola 1428, tempo 1, seeburg HF 100R, VL 200, Ami I
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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby HPR Pinball » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:03 pm

Mon instinct me dit que le prob peut venir de n'importe quel drop target, ailleur sous le playfield, dans un harness, dans le GI, un fil inversé, un short dans un endroit insoupconné, une switch mal monter etc .... je te recommande encore d'isolé le système, de reploguer tes fils un a un en vérifiant a chaque fois que tout est ok et c'est presque certain que tu va trouver bien plus précisément ou se situe le problème, une opération d'une heure environ.

Tout marchais bien avant alors il y a forcément qques chose qui est arrivé dans le remontage et ca doit etre qque chose qui n'a rien a voir avec des problèmes commun car je suis certain que tu a bien pris soin de tout remonter dans les règles de l'art.

C'est bien plus facile de sortir d'un labyrinthe quand ont le voit de haut que quand on est pris dedans :-)
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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby Lowrent » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:46 pm

My theory :
Machine is irritated you fondled with its innards.
MPU now getting its revenge by playing with your brain.

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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby redketchup » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:33 pm

Some info...

In switch test mode, with the droptarget down... slam switch number is 6 (credit buton), supposed to be 8. If one drop are up... number is good (8)

Same for the slam switch inside the cab.... drop down, number is 6 (credit switch) drop up 8 (slam)

Credit button show alway 6 like is supposed to be (drop up or down)

Coin switch number is ok (drop up or down)

An other interesting thing... if only top right drop target is up, switch test number when i push the slam switch is 7 (tilt switch) supposed to be 8 (slam switch)

To be clear switch number supposed to be

Credit 6
Slam 8
Tilt 7

I change the 5101 for a nvram that i have in hand, no change...

I recheck all the connection in the tilt panel and in the coin door... everything look good... and everything seem l8ke my other stern.

I cut the capacitor between the tilt bob and the wire

If I unplug j2 in the MPU... game boot with drop down

If i remove the plug for the GI at the power supply.., no change.

If i disconnect the big drop target bank (1-8) no change

I also try disconnect the switch matrix wire related to slam switch... no change

Et voila... more information, but the same problem...

Maybe i can switch coin door with an other one to see what happen?
Last edited by redketchup on Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Bally Centaur, Fathom, Stern Big Game, Flight 2000, Quicksilver, Catacomb, Stargazer, Nineball, Metallica Pro, Iron Maiden Pro, Wurlitzer 700, 750e, 1100, 1900, 1700, Rockola 1428, tempo 1, seeburg HF 100R, VL 200, Ami I
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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby redketchup » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:34 pm

HPR Pinball wrote:Mon instinct me dit que le prob peut venir de n'importe quel drop target, ailleur sous le playfield, dans un harness, dans le GI, un fil inversé, un short dans un endroit insoupconné, une switch mal monter etc .... je te recommande encore d'isolé le système, de reploguer tes fils un a un en vérifiant a chaque fois que tout est ok et c'est presque certain que tu va trouver bien plus précisément ou se situe le problème, une opération d'une heure environ.

Tout marchais bien avant alors il y a forcément qques chose qui est arrivé dans le remontage et ca doit etre qque chose qui n'a rien a voir avec des problèmes commun car je suis certain que tu a bien pris soin de tout remonter dans les règles de l'art.

C'est bien plus facile de sortir d'un labyrinthe quand ont le voit de haut que quand on est pris dedans :-)


Je cmprend pas vraiment comment je peux faire ca... je desoude tout les switchs et resoude doucement?
Bally Centaur, Fathom, Stern Big Game, Flight 2000, Quicksilver, Catacomb, Stargazer, Nineball, Metallica Pro, Iron Maiden Pro, Wurlitzer 700, 750e, 1100, 1900, 1700, Rockola 1428, tempo 1, seeburg HF 100R, VL 200, Ami I
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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby redketchup » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:49 pm

Double post
Bally Centaur, Fathom, Stern Big Game, Flight 2000, Quicksilver, Catacomb, Stargazer, Nineball, Metallica Pro, Iron Maiden Pro, Wurlitzer 700, 750e, 1100, 1900, 1700, Rockola 1428, tempo 1, seeburg HF 100R, VL 200, Ami I
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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby HPR Pinball » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:14 pm

Tu enlève les fils directement des connecteur mais si c'est du idc faut le refaire en passant. Dans cas c'est plus long mais tu corrige des futurs problèmes en passant.
Last edited by HPR Pinball on Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby redketchup » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:15 pm

Pour la switch marix?
Bally Centaur, Fathom, Stern Big Game, Flight 2000, Quicksilver, Catacomb, Stargazer, Nineball, Metallica Pro, Iron Maiden Pro, Wurlitzer 700, 750e, 1100, 1900, 1700, Rockola 1428, tempo 1, seeburg HF 100R, VL 200, Ami I
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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby redketchup » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:15 pm

redketchup wrote:Pour la switch marix?


Ou le lamp driver board?

If i remove all the plug fron the LDB... no change

So, if the probleme is still there with the GI disconnect and the controlled Lamp... does that mean is not a short with this circuit?

I also try with the ribbon cable from the sound board disconnect... no change
Bally Centaur, Fathom, Stern Big Game, Flight 2000, Quicksilver, Catacomb, Stargazer, Nineball, Metallica Pro, Iron Maiden Pro, Wurlitzer 700, 750e, 1100, 1900, 1700, Rockola 1428, tempo 1, seeburg HF 100R, VL 200, Ami I
To see it: http://www.pinballowners.com/redketchup

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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby HPR Pinball » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:16 pm

Oui met les fils un à un de la switch matrix, un fil column et un à un fils row, le prob va resortir de lui même
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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby Chnillapoil » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:31 pm

as-tu essayé de swapper ton lamp driver avec un autre board ? J'ai eu un problème assez fucké dernièrement avec ce board là....
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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby redketchup » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:52 pm

Look like i found my problem...

4EF4371F-792D-40E9-8454-9B02EE54DAA4.jpeg


If i isolate the droptarget actuator from the switch.... the problem go away...

Like like my drop target switch didn’t like the bath they take in the ultrasonic cleaner

It’s exactly the same problem i had with my drop target #2
Bally Centaur, Fathom, Stern Big Game, Flight 2000, Quicksilver, Catacomb, Stargazer, Nineball, Metallica Pro, Iron Maiden Pro, Wurlitzer 700, 750e, 1100, 1900, 1700, Rockola 1428, tempo 1, seeburg HF 100R, VL 200, Ami I
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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby HPR Pinball » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:18 pm

Yeah
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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby redketchup » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:13 pm

Confirm succes!
I change the switch an everything back to normal! Yeah! Plating look ok, maybe the isolation paper or something else
Bally Centaur, Fathom, Stern Big Game, Flight 2000, Quicksilver, Catacomb, Stargazer, Nineball, Metallica Pro, Iron Maiden Pro, Wurlitzer 700, 750e, 1100, 1900, 1700, Rockola 1428, tempo 1, seeburg HF 100R, VL 200, Ami I
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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby HPR Pinball » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:23 pm

La prochaine fois fait ton swap comme il faut :lol: :lol: ;)
J'ai bien hâte de voir ça!
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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby DrDude » Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:21 am

redketchup wrote:Confirm succes!
I change the switch an everything back to normal! Yeah! Plating look ok, maybe the isolation paper or something else

Yeah, you probably got the equivalent of a high-resistance connection between two or more of the switch blades via the drop-target housing and the bakelite insulators, caused by migration of metal flakes in the ultrasonic bath. Clearly a very weird scenario, and I will add it to my war-stories of "how it got broken" (although I'm not so fastidious as some here when doing a restore: I just care if the top-side stuff is super-clean, and am content to let the 50-year-old dirt inside the game remain "part of the charm" of owning an old game!)
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Nineball, Seawitch, Lightning, Cheetah
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Catacomb, Solar Fire, Balls-a-Poppin Seawitch backglass
Lust-worthy: Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby redketchup » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:10 pm

I play couple game this afternoon without any issue... look i have the game 100% working
Bally Centaur, Fathom, Stern Big Game, Flight 2000, Quicksilver, Catacomb, Stargazer, Nineball, Metallica Pro, Iron Maiden Pro, Wurlitzer 700, 750e, 1100, 1900, 1700, Rockola 1428, tempo 1, seeburg HF 100R, VL 200, Ami I
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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby steamfitter » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:17 pm

It's always a nice feeling to get something accomplished.

Nice work

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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby tom_454 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:23 pm

Awesome! Game looks great! The only thing left is to take some final high-def pictures with everything lit up and post em here. Congrats on the restore!
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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby redketchup » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:32 pm

tom_454 wrote:Awesome! Game looks great! The only thing left is to take some final high-def pictures with everything lit up and post em here. Congrats on the restore!


As soon as the game is in the line up!
Bally Centaur, Fathom, Stern Big Game, Flight 2000, Quicksilver, Catacomb, Stargazer, Nineball, Metallica Pro, Iron Maiden Pro, Wurlitzer 700, 750e, 1100, 1900, 1700, Rockola 1428, tempo 1, seeburg HF 100R, VL 200, Ami I
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Re: Nineball... try to make the magic happen again

Postby Lowrent » Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:27 am

Ready for sale on Pinside



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