Seawitch: What is your definition of "Restored"?

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redketchup
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Re: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby redketchup » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:15 pm

I had put blue incadescent in the 1-2-3 and rip tide circle, it was looking beautifull when i had mine
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Re: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby DrDude » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:22 pm

redketchup wrote:I had put blue incadescent in the 1-2-3 and rip tide circle, it was looking beautifull when i had mine

Yeah, the lamp-driver schematic says that these inserts are blue, but on my game they are a kind of yechy pale purple. Putting in blue condom bulbs would probably make it pop like a bastard, so I will try that out!
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Nineball, Seawitch, Lightning, Cheetah
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Catacomb, Solar Fire, Balls-a-Poppin Seawitch backglass
Lust-worthy: Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby YellowMustard » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:18 pm

for me just add leds...LOL
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Re: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby DrDude » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:04 pm

YellowMustard wrote:for me just add leds...LOL

Can't put LEDs in the controlled lamps without mods to the lamp-driver..
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Nineball, Seawitch, Lightning, Cheetah
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Catacomb, Solar Fire, Balls-a-Poppin Seawitch backglass
Lust-worthy: Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville


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Re: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby Sparky » Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:06 pm

YellowMustard wrote:for me just add leds...LOL


So that is what you do when you resell a machine? ROTFLMAO :FP:
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Re: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby YellowMustard » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:27 pm

Only restored ones...LOL
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gone but not forgotten: EFTLW, Secret Service, Gorgar, Elektra, Medusa, CENTAUR, FIREPOWER, ANDROMEDA(2), HS II The getaway, BSD(2), THE SHADOW, SPACE SHUTTLE, SM, X-MEN (shakered), GRAND PRIX (Italian reimport), Tales From The crypt, BSD(2), Nitro Ground Shaker, Harlem Globetrotters, INDY500, THE SHADOW (2), Twilightzone, RESCUE 911, Stern Playboy, BOP


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Re: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby Sparky » Fri Mar 31, 2017 3:35 pm

YellowMustard wrote:Only restored ones...LOL


LOL
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Re: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby DrDude » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:16 am

redketchup wrote:I had put blue incadescent in the 1-2-3 and rip tide circle, it was looking beautifull when i had mine

Just received my order from Steve Young, and got some blue #44 bulbs. It is a dramatic improvement! Only problem is they are much dimmer, even going from #47 to the brighter #44 bulbs, due to the blue-glaze.

Here's a photo showing two of the blue #44 bulbs, and one original #47: You can see how the insert plastic has faded to an ugly dusty-rose colour with basically no blue, and how the use of the blue #44 bulbs restores the intended look of the game:
IMG_20170407_085516.jpg

The RipTide lane looks so much better now: Thanks for the tip, redketchup!
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Nineball, Seawitch, Lightning, Cheetah
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Catacomb, Solar Fire, Balls-a-Poppin Seawitch backglass
Lust-worthy: Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby DrDude » Wed May 17, 2017 8:53 am

Haven't posted on my Seawitch Restoration thread for a while, but thought I'd update a bit.

Basically, the game is "almost there", with only a last few niggles:
    - Two of the pop-bumper lamp-sockets were flakey, causing the lighting to flicker/die as the pops activate. I bought new bayonet-style sockets from Tim Smith at Pinfest and put those in so now the pops are great
    - Slingshot chatter: Adjusting as it happens, but close now
    - As I previously mentioned, the inserts for the Riptide shot and the 1-2-3 lamps on the drop-targets had faded from a nice sea-blue to a mauvey-pink, and putting 44B (blue-coated) lamps in there fixed that. There was one other faded insert on the upper drop-target bank that should be a bright pink and is effectively clear now. Put in a 44R, which is better but too red. Will have to look for a pink lamp, or else a new insert (yah, right!)
Game is very close to completely restored now, and plays like a champ. You can make the riptide from all the required angles (thanks to the new ball-guide rivets) and it is really a thrill when you make the shot from the lower-right flipper (tough shot!) and it screams around. I'm really coming to appreciate the merits of this game, which despite the apparent simplicity is always a challenge: It's very hard to get more than half-a-million on a ball. No real annoyances in the layout (e.g. sewer shots, dead-rubber, etc.). My only niggle would be that the max-bonus sound-effect is pretty boring compared to champs like Stargazer and Quicksilver: however, the noise-of-the-sea background sound makes up for that!
Last edited by DrDude on Wed May 17, 2017 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Nineball, Seawitch, Lightning, Cheetah
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Catacomb, Solar Fire, Balls-a-Poppin Seawitch backglass
Lust-worthy: Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: Seawitch: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby tombiosis » Wed May 17, 2017 9:01 am

Grant, can you expand on how you adjust for the sling shot chatter? Is it just a matter of getting the gap in the leafs right?
Love Seawitch btw!
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Re: Seawitch: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby DrDude » Wed May 17, 2017 9:29 am

tombiosis wrote:Grant, can you expand on how you adjust for the sling shot chatter? Is it just a matter of getting the gap in the leafs right?
Love Seawitch btw!

It's gapping for sure, but there's a bit more to it. I don't have time right now to put up pictures that would show it better, but here's the basic idea:
    - You want the gap to be close enough that even a light touch of the ball will trigger (as otherwise, depending on the ball velocity, the slings are often just dead rubber)
    - Too close, and the slings will "chatter" due to the rebound of the rubber after firing causing another switch-closure
    - You want the rubber-side blade of the switch to be in intimate contact with the rubber, so push it to be tight up to the rubber: I usually bend it slightly over the rubber for that reason
    - The non-rubber blade has a short metal stiffener (between the two blades), and you want to push that stiffener away from the contacts, and then bend the blade slightly in towards the contact to make sure the blade is in intimate contact with the stiffener: This prevents it from vibrating after a contact, which is another source of chatter
I use my finger to lightly trigger the rubber at various points (from top to bottom) to make sure that even light contacts trigger the solenoid, and to make sure there's no chatter. Then start trying the ball manually, and finally play some games. Properly tuned, the ball should basically never strike the mid-section of the sling-rubber without triggering, and should never chatter EVER!

BTW, adjusting the blades with the game on is not recommended, as you can pinch your finger at the least, or blow a fuse at the worst. You'll get the hang of how much gap you need by visual inspection after a few tries.

Let me know if any of that isn't clear!
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Nineball, Seawitch, Lightning, Cheetah
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Catacomb, Solar Fire, Balls-a-Poppin Seawitch backglass
Lust-worthy: Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: Seawitch: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby tombiosis » Wed May 17, 2017 12:12 pm

That helps for sure...thanks. I had the dreaded chatter and bent the leaf apart more and it seemed to help. I think the brand new rubber has broken in more now too...it was too tight at first I think.
Now I have noticed my right sling will stay activated or stuck on sometimes, and I can get it to release by flipping the left flipper!?
I assume that I need to clean or adjust the EOS switch correct?
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Re: Seawitch: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby DrDude » Wed May 17, 2017 12:31 pm

tombiosis wrote:That helps for sure...thanks. I had the dreaded chatter and bent the leaf apart more and it seemed to help. I think the brand new rubber has broken in more now too...it was too tight at first I think.

Yes, the "tightness" of the rubber is another way you can adjust for chatter: You can try stretching it a bit tighter along the side of the triangle where the switches are to make it less prone to vibrating, and this may well reduce chatter. Not sure about "breaking in", but in most cases the difference between "some" and "no" chatter is not much, perhaps 1mm or less.
tombiosis wrote:Now I have noticed my right sling will stay activated or stuck on sometimes, and I can get it to release by flipping the left flipper!?
I assume that I need to clean or adjust the EOS switch correct?

Probably the vibration from the flipper, plus the reduced solenoid voltage (two coils firing at once) is why this happens. The EOS on the flipper has nothing to do with the slings. Note that the slings are purely operated by the computer: When the computer "sees" that the slingshot switch is closed, it sends a pulse to the slingshot coil. If the switch is _still_ registering as closed, it will pulse again, so it's all down to those switches.
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Nineball, Seawitch, Lightning, Cheetah
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Catacomb, Solar Fire, Balls-a-Poppin Seawitch backglass
Lust-worthy: Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: Seawitch: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby DrDude » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:02 am

OK, I'm declaring the Seawitch restoration complete. Have found a few last flakey lamps/sockets, and finally eliminated the occasional chatter on the left slingshot. And to put the icing on the cake, I finally beat Robi's high-score of 2.16 million with a 2.27 million score (embarrassing having your own game's high-score occupied by a friend who only played it 5 or 6 times!).

I have moved Seawitch to a friend's place (Thanks, Dwight!) where it will occupy a spot of honour in the 1980's row next to Speakeasy and Embryon. Reason for moving the game out was to make space for my cherry Centaur, which has sadly been gathering dust in the basement for about 10-years:
IMG_20170713_104608.jpg

The Centaur has mint BG and playfield (literally no wear that I can see), complete and uncracked plastics, and a decent cabinet. Electronics are complete/original and unhacked. Aside from a number of bad lamps/sockets, the two problems at the moment are:
    - Player-4 display has no commas
    - Say It Again board has a bad SAD4096 (Serial Analogue Delay) chip, so the all-important echo-plex is not working
The aptly named SAD chip got fried when a friend tried it in their non-functional Say It Again board: Turned out his board is a SAD-killer, and it blew my chip. These chips are extremely sensitive and easy to destroy, and have been unavailable for 30-years. Luckily, I have a replacement sourced from one of the many 80's guitar peddles that included it.

I will start a new thread on the Centaur Restore when I get a bit of time to move this along.
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Nineball, Seawitch, Lightning, Cheetah
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Catacomb, Solar Fire, Balls-a-Poppin Seawitch backglass
Lust-worthy: Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: Seawitch: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby redketchup » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:59 am

Bally Centaur, Fathom, Stern Big Game, Filght 2000, Quicksilver, Catacomb, Iron maiden, Stargazer, Viper, Metallica Pro, Wurlitzer 700, 750e, Rockola 1428, seeburg HF 100R
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Re: Seawitch: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby monty » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:03 am

DrDude wrote:Luckily, I have a replacement sourced from one of the many 80's guitar peddles that included it.


well that's a pinball fix i've never heard of before! awesome!

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Re: Seawitch: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby DrDude » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:56 am

redketchup wrote:maybe you don't know...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic ... 85-shipped

Yeah, I know about that reproduction board. It's not exactly the same sound, alas, at least the one that I heard. It's certainly better than not having a Say It Again at all, but my general principles are to stick with original boards where possible (i.e. no Alteks for me!)

monty wrote:
DrDude wrote:Luckily, I have a replacement sourced from one of the many 80's guitar peddles that included it.

well that's a pinball fix i've never heard of before! awesome!

Yeah, the sound of the peddle I got is absolute crap, but the SAD chip on it was good!

In fact, it turns out that my original SAD4096 was not blown by the "death board": The two potentiometers on the Say It Again turned out to be bad, and despite working just fine for a long time, they were the cause of the echoplex "going away". Cleaned them up with some contact cleaner, and the board is now working fine with the original SAD. No harm in buying the shitty-ass peddle as it gives me a spare SAD _and_ a primitive test-jig for checking out SAD chips without having to have a Centaur to hand.
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Nineball, Seawitch, Lightning, Cheetah
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Catacomb, Solar Fire, Balls-a-Poppin Seawitch backglass
Lust-worthy: Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: Seawitch: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby DrDude » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:06 pm

Holly Crap, I just got the shit scared out of me! I left the Centaur turned-on for a bit, just to heat-soak the connectors/boards a bit and make sure there were no obvious problems, and then while sitting at my desk working I heard this ungodly noise like the game was firing a bunch of solenoids! Turns out I forgot about the Centaur "Attract" feature where the game fires all 5 balls up onto the playfield every now and then, and it decided to "attract" my attention: It sure worked! I covered the stairs to the game in about 5 seconds, only to remember that this was normal.
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Nineball, Seawitch, Lightning, Cheetah
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Catacomb, Solar Fire, Balls-a-Poppin Seawitch backglass
Lust-worthy: Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: Seawitch: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby tombiosis » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:14 pm

Ok so party at Dwight's? Woohoo!
Pins: 8BDlx, 6M$M, Sorcerer, Stern Elvis, World PokerTour

WTB: Fish Tales, Fathom, Centaur, TSPP


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Re: Seawitch: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby DrDude » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:17 pm

tombiosis wrote:Ok so party at Dwight's? Woohoo!

Just make sure I'm invited! Allow me to defend my high-score!
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Nineball, Seawitch, Lightning, Cheetah
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Catacomb, Solar Fire, Balls-a-Poppin Seawitch backglass
Lust-worthy: Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: Seawitch: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby semicolin » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:53 pm

Grant that Centaur is beautiful! Glad to hear that you got the reverb working again; I know that has been been bugging you since the first time we met. Those weird little bugs are the worst things to troubleshoot. At least now you have a backup if that chip ever does bite the big one.
Sharing my space with: Stern Meteor, Gottlieb Tag Team, Interflip Dragon, Street Fighter cab w/Premium 8
Wanted: Widebody cocktail cabinet, ≥ 36", Bally Elektra, Williams Rollergames, Bally Centaur

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Re: Seawitch: What is your definition of "Restored"?

Postby DrDude » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:17 am

semicolin wrote:Grant that Centaur is beautiful! Glad to hear that you got the reverb working again; I know that has been been bugging you since the first time we met. Those weird little bugs are the worst things to troubleshoot. At least now you have a backup if that chip ever does bite the big one.

Honestly, I'm not sure why it didn't occur to me that it was the pots: They always go on these 80's era Bally sound-boards. The Say It Again board in particular has two pots, one for Bias and the other for Regen: Getting a good echo out of the board requires careful adjustment of the two pots, and Bias in particular needs to be "right" or you'll get very unsatisfying sound.

Anyways, the Centaur is a keeper! Feels good to have it out of the basement..
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Nineball, Seawitch, Lightning, Cheetah
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Catacomb, Solar Fire, Balls-a-Poppin Seawitch backglass
Lust-worthy: Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville



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