New: in the basement

Talk about anything that you would like.
User avatar
Bagdad
MAACA Mage
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Montréal

New: in the basement

Postby Bagdad » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:31 pm

So here it is, latest pin in my collection. (Thanks Pinhead)

As usual, here I go with my neeby questions:

1-What is the best way to update to latest rom. I noticed the machine is still at REV L1. I saw that there was a Rev L2 out there but how do I know its the latest?

2-Do I need to update the sounds rom too? I saw on pinside that they were selling 3 differents sounds rom (huh?!)

3-I think there is a sound issue on the machine. The voices are super loud, but we barely hear the music. If I crank up the sound so the music is at the right volume, then the voices make your head explode. Anyone knows how to troubleshot that?

Thanks.

P1030026.JPG

P1030027.JPG

P1030033.JPG
Own: Diner / Hurricane
Looking for : JunkYard / Who Dunnit / Black Knight 2000 / Black Rose

EvanDickson
MAACA Collaborator
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:51 pm
Location: Charlottetown, PEI

Re: New: in the basement

Postby EvanDickson » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:42 pm

THere are two pins in the pic, it will help to explain which one you are asking the questions about (90% sure it's Hurricane, but just to be sure).

Look for Dave Astill, or rompingirl on ebay, for roms. He's fast, he's in Canada, and his prices are very good.

You *may* need a specific sound rom to go with your game rom. If updating one, it's probably best to update the other. It only looks like an L-2 game rom and one unversioned sound rom were released for hurricane... (http://ipdb.org/search.pl?any=hurricane&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick#1257)

The games look great!

User avatar
Mrhide
MAACA Dark Lord
Posts: 11135
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:59 pm
Location: Laval

Re: New: in the basement

Postby Mrhide » Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:19 am

pour le son:

en premier retire et remet le cable "plat" du cpu vers la carte de son et vice versa.

ensuite:

Unbalanced Speech and Music.
Here's a story from Phil Brown: I decided to swap the sound boards between my
Addams Family and Funhouse to see if the problem would follow the board or stay
with the machine. After I'd done it, I started a game on Addams and noticed that
the speech and drum effects were much louder than the music, as if the balance
betwwen them had been changed. I then started a game on Funhouse and found
the opposite - it was much harder to hear Rudy's speech over the music. This got
me curious and I had a look at the schematics in the Funhouse manual for the sound
board. It seemed that there are four sound outputs, CVSD, CH1, CH2 and DAC. Just
before the point where they are mixed, they travel through four resistors, R22-R25.
In the schematics, R25/R22 are 150k, and R23/R24 are 120k ohms. R23/R24 are on
the outputs of CH1 and CH2, which I presume is the music. The other two are on
the outputs of CVSD and DAC, which I presume are the speech and sound effect
outputs. I also checked the schematic in the WPC Theory of Operation book and
found the same thing. Then I had a look at the parts list in the Funhouse manual
and the TAF manual - that's when my theory was confirmed. This is what I found:
R# Schem. Funhouse Addams
R25 150k 120k 120k
R24 120k 150k 56k
R23 120k 150k 56k
R22 150k 120k 120k
R21 27k 15k
So, at least for these two machines, Williams has changed the resistor value to
change the balance between speech/sound effects and music. On Funhouse they
have biased the sound toward speech, and on Addams towards music. This means
that WPC audio boards are not quite as interchangable between machines as
thought, although they work, both Addams and Funhouse sound very different.
John Wart added some info to the A-12738 Sound board resistors. The schematics
indicates R22/R25 should be 150k, and R23/R24 should be 120k. However, I never
found a sound board with those values installed. I went through piles of boards from
various games. And after looking at manuals and parts lists I'm convinced that those
values weren't used in those locations! My research indicates that the following
combination was used from Funhouse through Party Zone (FH, HD, BOP, Slugfest, GI,
T2, Hurricane, Party Zone):
R22/R25 = 120k
R23/R24 = 150k
And the rest of the games (Hot Shots basketball through TAFG) used the following:
R22/R25 = 120k
R23/R24 = 56k
So, it would appear that R22/R25 never changed, and R23/R24 are the values that
WMS changed, depending on the game.
In addition there are some capacitors on the pre-DCS sound board that effect sound
balance. If the resistors check out OK for your game, try replacing caps C15, C36,
and C38, as these are filter caps and will help balance the sound of certain
frequencies. If one of these caps is bad, certain frequencies won't sounds as loud or
clear as other frequencies, giving a seemingly unbalanced sound (c.hibler.)



rom: Steph ici te fais cela #1
LF: EGRET 2 or 3 + Shoot 'em up PCB. Let me know what you have!
Image

User avatar
Bagdad
MAACA Mage
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Montréal

Re: New: in the basement

Postby Bagdad » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:06 am

EvanDickson wrote:THere are two pins in the pic, it will help to explain which one you are asking the questions about (90% sure it's Hurricane, but just to be sure).

Look for Dave Astill, or rompingirl on ebay, for roms. He's fast, he's in Canada, and his prices are very good.

You *may* need a specific sound rom to go with your game rom. If updating one, it's probably best to update the other. It only looks like an L-2 game rom and one unversioned sound rom were released for hurricane... (http://ipdb.org/search.pl?any=hurricane&search=Search+Database&searchtype=quick#1257)

The games look great!


Yeah, Hurricane is the new one indeed :lol:

Pinhead will burn the roms for me (YAY!)

Games look good indeed, but It will need a good cleaing, re-rubbering, and plastics changes.

Later I will also install new LEDs all over the place, color match every inserts, etc... I did that for my Diner and It was a lot of fun! I might go for the PinballBulbs Kit this time, but I'm not sure yet...
Own: Diner / Hurricane
Looking for : JunkYard / Who Dunnit / Black Knight 2000 / Black Rose


User avatar
Bagdad
MAACA Mage
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Montréal

Re: New: in the basement

Postby Bagdad » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:09 am

Mrhide wrote:pour le son:

en premier retire et remet le cable "plat" du cpu vers la carte de son et vice versa.



Oui, Geoff ma dit la même chose, j'essaie ça dès que j'ai une minute pour gosser la dedans ;)

Comment je sais quel cables replugger? (Oui, je suis très débutant! :D)
Own: Diner / Hurricane
Looking for : JunkYard / Who Dunnit / Black Knight 2000 / Black Rose

User avatar
Mrhide
MAACA Dark Lord
Posts: 11135
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:59 pm
Location: Laval

Re: New: in the basement

Postby Mrhide » Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:09 am

Bagdad wrote:Comment je sais quel cables replugger? (Oui, je suis très débutant! :D)



les connections en rouge:

hurri.jpg
LF: EGRET 2 or 3 + Shoot 'em up PCB. Let me know what you have!
Image

User avatar
Bagdad
MAACA Mage
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Montréal

Re: New: in the basement

Postby Bagdad » Fri Oct 06, 2017 8:17 am

J'ai essayé de débrancher/rebrancher les fils, sans succès...?

Je sais pas si sa peut avoir un lien, mais quand je turn on/off la machine, j'entend un espèce de "buzzzzz" dans les speakers. Je n'ai pas ce "buzz" sur ma Diner...?
Own: Diner / Hurricane
Looking for : JunkYard / Who Dunnit / Black Knight 2000 / Black Rose

User avatar
Mrhide
MAACA Dark Lord
Posts: 11135
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:59 pm
Location: Laval

Re: New: in the basement

Postby Mrhide » Fri Oct 06, 2017 9:41 am

le buzz est normal sur WPC ... et ta Diner est une system11.


vérifie donc la valeur des resistances suivantes pour le fun?! et/ou est-ce que le serial qui est sur ton sound board match le cpu et le powerdriver board?

(used from Funhouse through Party Zone (FH, HD, BOP, Slugfest, GI, T2, Hurricane, Party Zone):
R22/R25 = 120k
R23/R24 = 150k

And the rest of the games (Hot Shots basketball through TAFG) used the following:
R22/R25 = 120k
R23/R24 = 56k
So, it would appear that R22/R25 never changed, and R23/R24 are the values that
WMS changed, depending on the game.

In addition there are some capacitors on the pre-DCS sound board that effect sound
balance. If the resistors check out OK for your game, try replacing caps C15, C36,
and C38, as these are filter caps and will help balance the sound of certain
frequencies.
LF: EGRET 2 or 3 + Shoot 'em up PCB. Let me know what you have!
Image

User avatar
Bagdad
MAACA Mage
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Montréal

Re: New: in the basement

Postby Bagdad » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:23 pm

Mrhide wrote:
vérifie donc la valeur des resistances suivantes pour le fun?!

est-ce que le serial qui est sur ton sound board match le cpu et le powerdriver board?


J'ai regardé mais en fait je ne sais pas trop "quoi" regarder. Ou sont les Serials et les résistances? Je met des photos, peux-tu m'indiquer ou checker ca... :oops:

P1030034.JPG

P1030036.JPG

P1030038.JPG

P1030035.JPG
Own: Diner / Hurricane
Looking for : JunkYard / Who Dunnit / Black Knight 2000 / Black Rose

User avatar
pinhead
MAACA Goliath
Posts: 2417
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:04 am
Location: Ottawa

Re: New: in the basement

Postby pinhead » Sat Oct 07, 2017 2:39 pm

I will burn new roms and send you the sound board from my Dr Who. With the ferris wheel motor and game rom.
Ottawa pinball operator and game technician.
For sale video games, manuals, boards, ask what you need and I might be able to get it for you.

Ottawa pinball repair service is limited.

http://www.pinhead.ca/

User avatar
Plumonium
MAACA Collaborator
Posts: 85
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:45 pm
Location: Montreal/South Shore

Re: New: in the basement

Postby Plumonium » Sat Oct 07, 2017 3:10 pm

Congrats on you new game! Enfin!
-Twilight Zone
-Diner
-Pinbot
-Fish Tales
-White Water
-AC/DC Pro

User avatar
cap
MAACA Barbarian
Posts: 699
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:19 pm
Location: Laval

Re: New: in the basement

Postby cap » Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:16 pm

Bagdad wrote:J'ai regardé mais en fait je ne sais pas trop "quoi" regarder.

Ca prend le manuel pour te dire ou sont les composantes. Tu peux le trouver sur ipdb sur la page de ta machine.
Apres, tu peux dechiffrer la valeur de la resistance par son code de couleur.
Mais je trouve plus simple de la mesurer avec un multimetre.
Road Show, Last Action Hero, Rocky & Bullwinkle, Stargate, F14 Tomcat (in restoration)

User avatar
Mrhide
MAACA Dark Lord
Posts: 11135
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:59 pm
Location: Laval

Re: New: in the basement

Postby Mrhide » Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:08 pm

c'est les sticker blue williams "warranty void if removed" .... et ils ne semblent effectivement pas matcher ...

les resistances en questions sont effectivement défini dans le manuel...
LF: EGRET 2 or 3 + Shoot 'em up PCB. Let me know what you have!
Image

User avatar
Bagdad
MAACA Mage
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Montréal

Re: New: in the basement

Postby Bagdad » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:31 am

Non, effectivement, les numéros ne match pas et y'en a même un de "gratter" illisible.

Je vais attendre, Pinhead est supposé m'envoyer un board et tout le kit, on verra à ce moment là.

Anyway en attendant j'me concentre sur ce que je sais faire, la nettoyer pis changer les pièces...
Own: Diner / Hurricane
Looking for : JunkYard / Who Dunnit / Black Knight 2000 / Black Rose

User avatar
Bagdad
MAACA Mage
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Montréal

Re: New: in the basement

Postby Bagdad » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:25 am

Bon, j'ai finalement pu regarder ça.

J'ai trouvé l'emplacement des Resistor R23/R24. QQn disait qu'il y avait moyen de déchiffrer ça sans un multimètre?

P1030281.jpg
Own: Diner / Hurricane
Looking for : JunkYard / Who Dunnit / Black Knight 2000 / Black Rose

User avatar
Woody
MAACA Collaborator
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:32 pm
Location: Longueuil, Québec

Re: New: in the basement

Postby Woody » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:41 am

Bagdad wrote:Bon, j'ai finalement pu regarder ça.

J'ai trouvé l'emplacement des Resistor R23/R24. QQn disait qu'il y avait moyen de déchiffrer ça sans un multimètre?

P1030281.jpg


Voici: https://www.apprendre-en-ligne.net/cryp ... t/ohm.html

Tu peux entrer tes couleurs à droite et ça t'indiquera la valeur.

Par contre, plus rapide avec un multimètre. Si je peux te conseiller, un multimètre serait un bon achat, tu en
auras souvent besoin si tu commence a travailler sur tes machines. C'est un outil essentiel.
Pour moins de 50$ tu peux avoir qlq chose de très bien.

User avatar
cap
MAACA Barbarian
Posts: 699
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:19 pm
Location: Laval

Re: New: in the basement

Postby cap » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:03 am

Je confirme. Par exemple, j'ai achete ce multimetre pas cher. Ce n'est pas un Fluke mais ca fait la job.
https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01M8Q9W1R
Au debut je pensais que l'auto range serait genial mais c'est vraiment poche.
Heureusement, ce multimetre supporte aussi les echelles manuelles.
Road Show, Last Action Hero, Rocky & Bullwinkle, Stargate, F14 Tomcat (in restoration)

User avatar
Bagdad
MAACA Mage
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Montréal

Re: New: in the basement

Postby Bagdad » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:14 am

Oui, je vais regarder ça pour un multimètre dans un futur rapproché.

Pour le moment, je sais pas si j'ai rentré la bonne chose, ça me donne ce résultat.

15.4 Ohms

res.jpg
res.jpg (16.45 KiB) Viewed 319 times
Own: Diner / Hurricane
Looking for : JunkYard / Who Dunnit / Black Knight 2000 / Black Rose

User avatar
sylvain
MAACA Death Knight
Posts: 3304
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:39 am
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

Re: New: in the basement

Postby sylvain » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:03 am

Une résistance avec code de couleur brun-vert-jaune-or vaut:
1 5 0000 5% e.g. 150K 5% de tolérance.

La grosseur des résistances semble indiquer 1/2W.


- Sylvain.


Bagdad wrote:Oui, je vais regarder ça pour un multimètre dans un futur rapproché.

Pour le moment, je sais pas si j'ai rentré la bonne chose, ça me donne ce résultat.

15.4 Ohms

res.jpg
Looking for Bally Star-Jet, Capersville or The Wiggler, Williams Magic City, Grand Lizard, Swords of Fury, 1986 Pinstar Gamatron, and a few others.
Collecting & repairing electro-mechanical and solid state pinball machines with quality and care for over 35 years.
Serious and fun hobby, powerful nostalgia !

User avatar
Bagdad
MAACA Mage
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Montréal

Re: New: in the basement

Postby Bagdad » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:16 am

Oui, j'ai utilisé ce site et ça ma donné 150k...

http://www.pinrepair.com/resist/index.htm

Donc,ça voudrait dire que c'est la bonne résistance pour Hurricane selon ce que Mr.Hide disait:

(used from Funhouse through Party Zone (FH, HD, BOP, Slugfest, GI, T2, Hurricane, Party Zone):
R22/R25 = 120k
R23/R24 = 150k
Own: Diner / Hurricane
Looking for : JunkYard / Who Dunnit / Black Knight 2000 / Black Rose

User avatar
Bagdad
MAACA Mage
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Montréal

Re: New: in the basement

Postby Bagdad » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:33 am

Sinon, j'ai regardé les Serials et les Numéro de pièces des boards et ils match avec ceux du manuel, sauf le CPU board.

Je vois pas le numero de pièce du CPU board, mais le # de model du sérial n'est pas celui de Hurricane (50012). On voit pas le premier chiffre du #, mais la fin est (*0017) et c'est marqué Bally/Midway au lieu de Williams comme les autres.

Ça pourrait avoir un lien avec mon problème, ou aucun rapport?
Own: Diner / Hurricane
Looking for : JunkYard / Who Dunnit / Black Knight 2000 / Black Rose

User avatar
Bagdad
MAACA Mage
Posts: 250
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:08 am
Location: Montréal

Re: FT: Williams Black Knight 2000

Postby Bagdad » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:02 pm

Mrhide wrote: j'ai une hurricane et je l'aime beaucoup. mais j'aimerais aussi avoir une Bk2k !


Nice! Ça veut dire que tu vas pouvoir m'aider à réparer mon son de marde :lol:
Own: Diner / Hurricane
Looking for : JunkYard / Who Dunnit / Black Knight 2000 / Black Rose

User avatar
Mrhide
MAACA Dark Lord
Posts: 11135
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:59 pm
Location: Laval

Re: FT: Williams Black Knight 2000

Postby Mrhide » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:35 pm

Bagdad wrote:
Mrhide wrote: j'ai une hurricane et je l'aime beaucoup. mais j'aimerais aussi avoir une Bk2k !


Nice! Ça veut dire que tu vas pouvoir m'aider à réparer mon son de marde :lol:



sure! c'est quoi le problème ?!
LF: EGRET 2 or 3 + Shoot 'em up PCB. Let me know what you have!
Image



Return to “MAACA Forum and Chat”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests