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Philosophers Corner

Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:52 am
by Chris Silver
Morning guys. Sorry if I hurt your brain, but this question is mostly directed towards RAB. ;)

I started this thread and put this platter out for anyone to pick at. It is a potluck so feel welcome to place more on the table.

After hearing the word epistemological and looking up what it meant I came up with questions. It is an older thought I had back when I used to smoke pot.

Is the epistemological view of the universe still valid in an existentialist world?

Re: Philosophers Corner

Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:14 am
by Chris Silver
Below is just a statement. It is something I wrote on Facebook yesterday while feeling nostalgic and reminiscing. I was missing the arcades, the record stores and roller rinks. I was remembering when bowling alleys were rocking and the shelf's contents during the early days of video stores. I recall putting my first quarter into Donkey Kong after picking a well thought out tune on the jukebox.

I retrieved the memory of trading up my banana seat for a BMX. It’s partly my fault the whole world changed.

My generation traversed the electromechanical to solid-state, analog to digital, corded to cordless and revelled in the ability to listen to full albums without interruption. Life was simpler yet more complex. Our minds weren’t perpetually occupied. There was time to think and process. There was no storm inside.

Now I hold in my hand a window to the world - the universe. All the knowledge of mankind is at my fingertips. I can communicate with anyone anywhere on our planet or circling it while simultaneously circumventing human interaction. We have gained so many things for the cost of one.

Re: Philosophers Corner

Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:26 pm
by Sparky
In the past, we had milk in glass bottles, a family sized soft drink was a 750ml glass bottle, grocery bags were paper bags, we had 5 tv channels but always found something cool that was on, we met in arcades and hang-outs to chat with friends, and videogames gave you on average 5 minutes of adrenalin and thrills. We built things to last, even though not very efficient.

Progress.... now, we have milk in plastic jugs, yet we have a plastic problem all over the world.

A "personal" bottle of soda is now 700ml.... and also made of plastic. And kids consume too much sugar...

Grocery bags have been made out of plastic for a while... plastic issue again...

I have 250 tv channels... but I find little interesting, as most shows are shit now. Don't get me started on reality tv...

And people rarely hang out today. The connect through computers...

I have changed 3 fridges in the last 15 years due to computer shit dying in them... but my grandma had an old energy guzzling fridge that worked great for 60 years... what is worse... consuming twi e the electricity, or having 12 modern fridges at the city dump in a 60-year period?

So... is progress all that great, or is it true when us old cronies say that life was better in the past?

We don't stop at improving what needs to be improved... we try and improve a great thing and fuck it up.

Progress....

But that is where nostalgia comes in. It pulls us back. We meet in garages.... basements... backalley bars.... and our kids look at us as if we were weirdos.

I look at them with sadness. Because they don't know what they are missing.

Re: Philosophers Corner

Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:46 pm
by cait001
Sparky wrote:I have changed 3 fridges in the last 15 years due to computer shit dying in them... but my grandma had an old energy guzzling fridge that worked great for 60 years... what is worse... consuming twi e the electricity, or having 12 modern fridges at the city dump in a 60-year period?


Oh man does this conundrum ever bug me!

Re: Philosophers Corner

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:54 am
by R.A.B.
You sure you want to open this conversation Chris ? God bless you for your courage.

I personally agree with the Deists school of thought that God split the scene soon after possibly creating the universe from scratch. There is no one looking over us now, and existential theory came forth from that realization as it mixed in with the fury of the industrial revolution. And especially after two world wars, it became very clear to those who were not afraid to use their brains that God had split the scene a very long time ago and now industry was capable of creating many great things and by the same token was capable of great destruction of which the likes were never seen before, thus replacing god and the devil altogether by a new power - Man - i.e. god and the devil himself wrapped up into one entity if you like. That realization is part of the science of knowing and understanding - epistemology. When you put both epistemology and existential theory together and let them go to work it can go either way, that depends on the value system of those calling the shots. The will to power is not going anywhere soon, and that inevitably leads into ethics, and we will not be able to address that school of thought in depth, at least not in the here and now of this post.

We are also now in an age of abundant information and it is challenging the current evolutionary limits of our capacity to know, process and absorb. Basically, we have been suddenly & recently bombarded with more than most of us can truly know, let alone understand. Our brains have not had the required time to develop as fast as the tools of the information age urging us towards more and more saturation of information leading to a sort of voluntary submission. The new mind is late in arriving, so we have become dumb and the technology has become smart. So this is good for business and marketing teams, and is also promoting instability in behaviour and personal values across generations, which is also more than likely good for business. The new dumb are appearing sooner to us than they did to our parents. I personally don't trust or listen too attentively to most people under 40. Take the time to look at almost anyone you know under 40 or 30 or 20 depending on your age group and they are likely to appear as the new dumb to you. You can usually identify them fairly quickly since it is quite obvious that thinking will likely always be a bother to them. The majority of them believe that philosophical questioning is no longer necessary since they have the answers being provided by someone or something without having to deploy that bothersome filter of weighing information and testing it against reality, it takes too much time and attention to do that. Thinking and knowing have different philosophical qualities. In fact, put simply, many of us, old or young are too dumb to know what we are subjected to know now. And when I say “know”, I mean to ability to process and understand what a truth is by being put to the test against reality and looking at the results produced from that presumed truth. Short term truths are subject to change via opinions and are quite handy when someone wants to control the immediate actions and choices of others, but long term truths are tested through time and to me are the more desirable of the bunch since you can build something reliable and solid from the knowledge generated through the test of time. You can not build a good toaster out of short term truths used as building blocks, yet people do all the time - (not build toasters, but act on short term truths). That is also the science of epistemology, knowledge as truth. Nasty. Yet, it is so practical to many not have truth in the way of what the greed heads want to do with the new dumb who are staring at their screens, especially when they are looking for answers to questions on their shitty little phones while someone or something is putting out some info to be treated as truth. Any if whatever information can be held up long enough as truth by enough of the googlers, well then, you can justify almost anything for a while when truth can be made up from a noisy cross section of opinions. It is the way most of the new dumb see the world now, yet full of holes in the information. Not many intelligent and educated people post on the web's most frequented mainstream forums or websites. It is not a complete picture whichever way you cut it. You can then be sure that "bits" of information do not equal understanding.

The fact that some power is likely controlling what we are led to know as a truth is a big problem, especially when it comes to being a healthy human being capable of extraordinary & good & selfless things. Also, not being paralyzed by fear and anxiety and the paranoia instilled when we believe what we read or hear or see coming off an lcd screen instead of what is real and directly in front of us. What is in front of us is something we can truly affect by an interaction with reality, what is happening on the screen is more difficult to change. What a strong freakin' monkey grip they have on the majority of the populations dumbs dumbs who believe what appears as a truth to be acted upon or at least comment on, along with a sense of intelligence and awe. they then wait to see how many likes they get from being ordinary. I don't claim to know what is going on all over the world and you shouldn't either, it is too much to handle and will eventually make you crazy, you need to act, not only react. And even though you hear bits and pieces of what is happening across the globe, remember that it is what is chosen for you to be made aware of by a powerful media controlled by powerful people and their friends who generally don't give a shit about the world and the low lives that they see as making up the general population, especially the poor which are now becoming a bother to their greed. I personally do not believe anything that serves rich peoples interests, and no one should. They count on unquestioning beings as the norm because everyone is kept over worked and tired and struggling for something close to a living wage, along with no time to say, “hey wait a minute, you bastards are lying and selling what you want us to believe as truth across a powerful platform you have set up to gain advantage over those you have frighten into believing that they must endure working all their lives for you in order to find their own “goodie” when you are through with them and they are too old and tired to enjoy anything at all.” Fuck you Charlie.

Here is an interview with the elusive one we call “the man”, boy would I like to get my hands on him. The interview below is as close as one can get without being eliminated.

https://www.raptitude.com/2013/09/an-in ... h-the-man/

So Chris, this is where existential theory comes into play. To finally admit and acknowledge that we are thrown here for no meaningful or premeditated reason and that we should take full responsibility for our actions and existence via the science of epistemology, (i.e knowledge) and act via an existential theory (i.e. taking responsibility for our actions). A tough sell for sure, since we like the idea of god the father or whatever or some force watching over us with a sense of truth and justice that will rule one day, so we don't have to do the work of making sure freedom and happiness are what prevails right now. All the good and righteous things are reserved for an afterlife since we sure as shit have fucked up this present life situation pretty badly and it should just all be sent to the dump (for recycling) as many who are on a crash and burn course in regards to human civilization are concerned and may have decided for us.

So, we are born and float aimlessly until we get ourselves grounded in some knowledge of the truth. Otherwise we will be subjected to what is sold to us by pigs who want to control and profit from those who do not question and act. The greedheads are working towards the perceived truth that there is nothing to do except follow the carrot. Just make sure that the truth that grounds you is not directly or indirectly serving someone you don't know or sounds like the guy in the interview above. A truth must derive from you first and allow the one and the many of us to be a free and exist as creative human beings doing extraordinary things and will not be scared into submission and slotted into a life of miserable ease at the service of someone you can't talk to or see, again like the guy answering the important questions in the interview above.

We know plastics are bad, knowing that is a form of epistemology, existential action stemming from that knowledge is to exercise the willingness to not buy any and set an example for others close to you. So you will need more money to buy your milk in glass bottles since they are no longer the standard because the petroleum industry rules right now. So “the man” has kept the majority of consumers in the range of poor to the middling class and is making available what they can afford what "he" decides, even though there are enough resources to make everyone responsible, healthy in a world that doesn't stink for so many, - but that is not what profits "the man".

Re: Philosophers Corner

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:58 pm
by Sparky
R.A.B. wrote:I personally agree with the Deists school of thought that God split the scene soon after possibly creating the universe from scratch.


Kurt Vonnegut's Sirens of Titan. Great read. In it, a rich guy creates a religion called the Church of the God of the Utterly Indifferent after tripping out. The Church is built with the idea that because God is infinitely more powerful and enlightened than the entire human race, he has no use for them and instead allows chance and happenstance to govern life on Earth.

Makes sense.

Either God doesn't exist, or he is so powerful due to creating everything, that we are nothing in the scope of things.

And considering that each galaxy has on average 100 billion stars like our sun in it, and they estimate to be over 100 billion galaxies in the universe, if God took 7 days to create our world, that means that he has been at each solar system and been at it for 27,472,527,472,527 milleniums, taking 7 days at each place.

That fucker is a busy dude...

Re: Philosophers Corner

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:39 pm
by shane
Wow .



Heavy. Really heavy.

Re: Philosophers Corner

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:16 pm
by Sparky
shane wrote:Wow .



Heavy. Really heavy.


I was going to post something completely stupid and funny, being fried after driving to Moncton. But I refrained.

I rather see something constructive written in this thread. Plenty of room for stupid shit elsewhere.

I will leave this tidbit though. During my 12hr drive, I think I clarified a lot of things within my head. We seldom stop and think anymore, due to life always rushing us. We are less, because we think less. We "progress" through life, yet end up a little more like animals each day. We head to work like a moth to a light. We toil away. And then we head back home and seek escape through a screen, telling us what to think and do, and showing us worst-case-scenarios to make us feel better about things.

But all that is really needed is to sit, think, assess, adjust, rise, act and enjoy NOT being in your comfort zone.

Our personal doomsday clocks never always count down. Make the best of it.

This said, looking forward to Friday and being a fish out of water again. Pigs are flying once more.

... and I like it.

Re: Philosophers Corner

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:31 pm
by shane
I don't like to think about the " rat race "
Its inevitability in my life is enough.
Heard something on the radio this week, keeps echoing.......
Possesions can only bring pain.
Going to dwell on this further.

Re: Philosophers Corner

Posted: Fri Jul 19, 2019 1:46 pm
by R.A.B.
shane wrote:I don't like to think about the " rat race "
Its inevitability in my life is enough.
Heard something on the radio this week, keeps echoing.......
Possesions can only bring pain.
Going to dwell on this further.



We (the ones who asks questions) are slowly coming to the realization that consumerism as a way to feel some form of satisfaction is not the "shnitzel" it is promoted to be. We know so much more now about how things work, are made to appear and what is really happening. We know more today than we ever did about things generations before us took as the truth. As well, we are now getting to a level of oversaturation of stuff that it has become to mean less and less. Especially when it comes from the dollar stores and Walmarts and such. It is not about quality anymore, (unless you are rich and buy where they buy), it is about quantity for the masses. So ask yourself this, how can you have quality when you have mass production bringing these goods to the masses ?

Have a good weekend folks and pursue the sun while walking in the shade.

Hang on to the things you love. By the way, it is ok to love objects as well as others if they hold quality and are well made/maintained, I love quality in all its forms now because it has become rare.