Pinball investment questioning ?

Talk about solid-state and DMD pinball machines
User avatar
HPR Pinball
MAACA OG
Posts: 7477
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:53 pm
Location: St-Rose, Laval
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 15 times

Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by HPR Pinball »

What titles will increase most in value in the next 5 years in your opinion ?
Quel titres vont prendre le plus de valeur dans les 5 prochaines années selon votre opinion ?
Last edited by HPR Pinball on Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Inventory
Pins: http://www.pinballowners.com/hal-9ooo
Vids: http://www.arcade-museum.com/members/me ... _id=454505
Les arcades, j'suis tombé d'dans quand j'tait pti !! :-)

User avatar
Steph
MAACA Wacko
Posts: 2895
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:50 pm
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by Steph »

TZ seems to be quickest price-increasing machine I've seen for several years.
It easily doubled in price in the last 5-6 years alone.
2084 : Last Hope for Humanity

User avatar
powerslave
MAACA Motormouth
Posts: 2155
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 5:45 am

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by powerslave »

Tous les titres qui vont passer dans les mains des personnes les plus convaincantes dans les forums tel que maaca et pinside

User avatar
HPR Pinball
MAACA OG
Posts: 7477
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:53 pm
Location: St-Rose, Laval
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 15 times

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by HPR Pinball »

I think TZ has capped at this moment, in my opinion no more important increases for the next 5 years.
Inventory
Pins: http://www.pinballowners.com/hal-9ooo
Vids: http://www.arcade-museum.com/members/me ... _id=454505
Les arcades, j'suis tombé d'dans quand j'tait pti !! :-)

User avatar
cait001
MAACA Wacko
Posts: 4457
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:42 pm
Location: Centretown, Ottawa, ON
Has liked: 3 times
Been liked: 6 times

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by cait001 »

A few of the biggest 90s Williams titles are near the NIB price, and I don't see them going past that. As NIB goes up, they will raise with that tide. But now the looming threat of an eventual reproduction has changed the scarcity game.
I think GoT Premium/LE and Metallica Premium/LE will go up more, reaching AC/DC LE levels.

I think IJ and STTNG will go up in the next 2 years, as they lag the most premium titles. And I think Banzai Run and Safecracker will also go up.
I think in 5 years Big Lebowskis will be trading like BBBs are, just because there will be relatively few of them due to initial price point.

And I predict the Wheel Of Fortune final code will leak and that game will skyrocket. ;)
WANTED: 21 (1946 Duval), NSM Freispiel Sieg Super-Match, 1972 Bally Continental Bingo slot machine
backglasses wanted: Star-Jet, Fire Queen, Fairy, Out Of Sight
marquees wanted: Strider, Varkon, Dark Planet, R-Type (w/ship), Quantum, Ninja (Sega)
blog -- collection -- Pinball Women Ottawa -- Ottawa Pinball Map -- ratings

User avatar
tom_454
MAACA Millennial
Posts: 1004
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:13 pm
Location: Ottawa
Has liked: 2 times

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by tom_454 »

None of them.we are at close to peak pin prices. Most of the collectors with big money are approaching or are past their fifties and will soon start dying off or facing health issues. Younger generation is not interested. In 15 years these things will be paper weights. Just a thought.
Pinball Rocks!
277 old posts - member since August 2007.

User avatar
cait001
MAACA Wacko
Posts: 4457
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:42 pm
Location: Centretown, Ottawa, ON
Has liked: 3 times
Been liked: 6 times

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by cait001 »

tom_454 wrote:None of them.we are at close to peak pin prices. Most of the collectors with big money are approaching or are past their fifties and will soon start dying off or facing health issues. Younger generation is not interested. In 15 years these things will be paper weights. Just a thought.
While I do not disagree, except that the timeline is 20 years, the main question was over the next 5! ;)
WANTED: 21 (1946 Duval), NSM Freispiel Sieg Super-Match, 1972 Bally Continental Bingo slot machine
backglasses wanted: Star-Jet, Fire Queen, Fairy, Out Of Sight
marquees wanted: Strider, Varkon, Dark Planet, R-Type (w/ship), Quantum, Ninja (Sega)
blog -- collection -- Pinball Women Ottawa -- Ottawa Pinball Map -- ratings

singlezero
MAACA Buck
Posts: 137
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:28 pm

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by singlezero »

I was sort of wondering this the last few days as well.. for other reasons and .. it is interesting you ask this too and post about the new overlays coming out. Investment or ROI would be the consideration .For example, a TZ selling for 9000 today, and selling from 5 years from now at 10,000 is only 2 % per annum. Then looking at genres or decades really do you break it down that way? I would think the 50s and 60s machinces have maxed out. The market is higher supply than demand in general . from personal observation, there has been a keener interest in 70's pins. a lot of collectors/ players ... seem to want a machine with chimes.. and when a title is perceived as coveted, it drives the machine up. I would say , ROI in the last few years has been high. Will that trend continue, I don't know. Now 80s machines, ballys /Williams have had that appeal too and with that new super overlay making what is the demise of most 80s machines, the pf... now a possible or relative inexpensive repair, will that drive the prices considerably higher over the next 5 years? I have seen some high prices for 80s ballys, but for all the $1000 flashes/e and a $500 pf... does it stand to reason that machine has the greater potential for ROI? id have to think a space shuttle with that new overlay will be worth more than what I paid for it initially. finally with ... New Machines, I really have to think , if you are looking at Pinball investment, you really have to ..put more on the value of the dollar in determining this than the actual machine itself. youre already loosing 20 % when buying it. If the dollar stabilizes within 5 years.. and there has been an appreciation of a nib machine but a stronger dollar , does that not negate its appreciation?

im just tossing things out there, nothing of substance to place it on , rather .. just some assumptive thoughts on pinball " futures" and over generalizing on genres rather than titles.

User avatar
SuperPinball
MAACA Silent Type
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:20 pm
Location: Richmond Hill, ON

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by SuperPinball »

I think pin prices are loosely following home prices. Pins have doubled in the last 7 years but so have houses. Many of the major banks are reporting a market bubble in houses and it stands to reason that pin prices too are in a bubble. As for longevity, kids do not gravitate to pins the way the 40-50 year old demographics do. Therefore pins as a long term investment is risky because demand will taper off.
In summary pins are not a good investment in the short term (bubble) nor are they a good investment in the long term (decreasing demand). Best to not look at pins as an investment and simply enjoy it now.

User avatar
tom_454
MAACA Millennial
Posts: 1004
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:13 pm
Location: Ottawa
Has liked: 2 times

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by tom_454 »

The CDN dollar of course can alter things drastically. A sudden return to par with the US greenback would mean a lot of CDN "investors" would lose their returns. Those $7k+ StarBurst NIB GhostBusters pins (for example) would suddenly be worth $5k. Ouch.

As with anything - buy low - sell high. Timing is everything. There are easier ways to make money "speculating". Just collect for fun and to play - if you happen to make a few bucks - cool. If you happen to lose a few bucks make sure you have the bucks to back up your losses.

Keep on Flippin.
Pinball Rocks!
277 old posts - member since August 2007.

User avatar
Chris Silver
MAACA Wacko
Posts: 3099
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:41 pm
Location: Hawkesbury, Nowhere Ontario
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by Chris Silver »

Raven.
Pins: Spirit, Centaur II, Af-Tor, Embryon, Black Hole, Elektra, Timeline, Silverball Mania, Panthera, Baby Pac Man, Blackout, Alien Poker
Gone: Space Station, Top Score, Flash Gordon, Solar Fire, Haunted House, Fire (x2), Vector, Bally Playboy, Tropic Isle, Beat the Clock, Blue-Chip, Disco, Punk!, Lightning, Time Fantasy, 8 Ball Deluxe LE, Double Dragon, Stellar Wars
WTB: Black Knight, Fathom, Split Second, Nine Ball
Its better to have played and lost than never to have played at all.

User avatar
cait001
MAACA Wacko
Posts: 4457
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:42 pm
Location: Centretown, Ottawa, ON
Has liked: 3 times
Been liked: 6 times

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by cait001 »

Chris Silver wrote:Raven.
God I hope someone is working on a Raven 2.0 upgrade kit and suddenly it will be a hot commodity.
WANTED: 21 (1946 Duval), NSM Freispiel Sieg Super-Match, 1972 Bally Continental Bingo slot machine
backglasses wanted: Star-Jet, Fire Queen, Fairy, Out Of Sight
marquees wanted: Strider, Varkon, Dark Planet, R-Type (w/ship), Quantum, Ninja (Sega)
blog -- collection -- Pinball Women Ottawa -- Ottawa Pinball Map -- ratings

User avatar
MJ
MAACA QuarterPounder
Posts: 456
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:19 pm
Location: Ottawa

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by MJ »

Remember folks, pinball is a hobby first and foremost.

If you are looking for an investment, I suggest you look elsewhere, just not a good time to get in right now. You are more likely to loose than make, especially in today's market. USA goods and USA $, history tends to repeat itself. If you are in it for solely for profit, get out of while the prices are high. Stay on the side lines and be patient for the good old US $ to fall and the Can $ to rise, its just a matter of time. On the bad side, your won't have pins to play with!

Just as any other hobby that you can actually play with the goods e.g., boats, snowmobiles, cars etc..pins will likely depreciate. So what if one looses a few bucks, still much cheaper to own than a boat or RV!

You cannot take it to the grave and you have to spend it somewhere. You cannot eat money and you will end up giving it away anyway to someone else who will gladly piss it away for you. :o

As far as which pin is more likely to go up, your guess is as good as mine.
Collection: SM, LOTR LE, BDK, TZ, ST, JB, NF, Hobbit LE, T2

User avatar
DrDude
MAACA Half-ling
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:29 pm
Location: Manotick/Ottawa
Contact:

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by DrDude »

MJ wrote:As far as which pin is more likely to go up, your guess is as good as mine.
I don't think that statement is entirely true: the ones that are going to go up are the ones that are already going up! The price of Big Bang Bar or Fathom is never coming down to earth, on that you can count. Collectors with deep-pockets, either unable to afford the crazy prices of the elite games or (simply unable to find one for sale) then look further afield, and the B-titles get bought up. So, look for games that used to be cheap, but are starting to get some buzz and getting hard to find (I'm looking at you, Classic Sterns!), and that is where you will find the so-called "investment pins". Just my 2cents!
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Lightning, Nineball, Cheetah, Seawitch, Catacomb
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Balls-a-Poppin, Catacomb slingshot plastics
Lust-worthy: Dragonfist, Solar Fire, Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

User avatar
Sparky
MAACA OG
Posts: 23133
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 5:33 pm
Location: Saint-Lazare, west of MTL
Been liked: 12 times

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by Sparky »

No disrespect intended, but... who gives a fuck? If a person's main intention is to solely make money on a hobby, then you are probably not in the right place. This is MAACA... a collector's forum. Not a forum for investment profiteers.

Maybe I am too unselfish, but I rather preserve and restore than make a buck. I believe most think that way as well. My biggest thrill is to take a machine no one would give a second look at, and turn it into a gem. Not for profit at all, but to see another working machine back out there and appreciated.

This being said, I do agree with Tom_454... right now, it is at it's peak. It's a combination of the US economy picking up a bit, and the rarity of movement... not necessarily rarity in numbers but more of that there are few out there for sale, having been acquired by collectors with deep pockets.

So, the wealthier collectors having jumped and now sitting on most of the A-list pins, the "middle-class" collectors jump on the rare System 11's and some desirable early SS and so on. But even these are now moving less and less, hence why some are BUILDING their own.

Now... what is happening is that this bubble has lasted for over 5 years now. We might still have a few years of high prices, but at some point, the bubble will burst. It will start with a few high-end collectors that will start to get bored with the games and sell off. That will trigger other bored collectors. They will want to sell while the market is hot. And then the market will quickly get flooded. It's like when you decide to sell your house. All is great, until 8 others on your street decide to do the same. Then the price floor drops. Add the repro games now such as MM and AFM... same principle. Add the difficulty of getting certain parts in time as well, and the bubble will burst. Might be in 2 years, might be in 5 or even 10, but it will. I am sure that the 40-something guy that started collecting in 1995-2000 will not really be interested in sitting on 20+ games when he approaches 60-something and he decides to sell the house due to the kids being gone, or whatever reason.

But it will happen.
Patron saint of lost pinball causes.

Stage 5B. All except for NIB crap.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4742&p=40349&hilit=stages#p40349

User avatar
DrDude
MAACA Half-ling
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:29 pm
Location: Manotick/Ottawa
Contact:

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by DrDude »

Sparky wrote:No disrespect intended, but... who gives a fuck? If a person's main intention is to solely make money on a hobby, then you are probably not in the right place. This is MAACA... a collector's forum. Not a forum for investment profiteers.
On some level, I agree with you, but there is another side to this, even for the true MAACA member: Which games are poised to "take off" in price, so if you are thinking of getting one (because you want one to own and play, not as an investment!), you'd better do it soon. Back in 2000 when I got into the hobby, I quickly identified two games that I realized I had better get one soon (in any condition), as the prices were even then heading into stupid-money territory. Those two games were Fathom and Centaur. At the time, I would have said that Centaur would be the game most likely to take off, but I was wrong and it was Fathom that truly became stupidly expensive. Anyways, I got my Centaur and my Fathom, and am glad I did (even if it meant storing them away for many years due to lack of space), so I think I did OK. My main interest then (as now) was Classic Sterns, and I quietly put together my current collection for very little investment, but now those are starting to get expensive too. So, if you are thinking "someday, I'd like to own a Quicksliver", might I suggest not waiting much longer to buy one..
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Lightning, Nineball, Cheetah, Seawitch, Catacomb
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Balls-a-Poppin, Catacomb slingshot plastics
Lust-worthy: Dragonfist, Solar Fire, Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

User avatar
TwilightZone
MAACA Wacko
Posts: 4545
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 9:08 am
Location: Ottawa
Has liked: 1 time
Been liked: 2 times
Contact:

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by TwilightZone »

I've been collecting since 1998 and never thought what are now considered the "SS classics" would go up to the insane prices I am seeing now. I'm impressed with your foresight. Especially Sterns. When I started you could pick them up super cheap and I didn't see that changing. Even back then the Bally's commanded more.

I think Sparky and MJ are right, if you are buying for "investment", you would be better advised to consider real estate, stocks, bonds, etc. The market on collectibles can drop quickly. I don't see it happening over night, but I don't include my pinball in my retirement savings. I know someone that considered his classic car as part of his retirement. That didn't work out so well when he had to sell.

Buy a pinball to enjoy it. We are lucky right now. Generally, at a minimum, you get your money back when it is time to sell. For many of us, myself included, we would actually be ahead if we had to sell. I'm not sure this can continue for long. New games are now over $8K taxes in! I don't think this price point will be supported for long. Even the folks with deep pockets will run out of room.
Looking for web/graphic design, hosting, application Development, or CMS design/hosting?

MarketAccess Communications Inc.
Providing exceptional services for Small Business, Associations and Government
http://www.marketaccess.ca

Just Accessibility - Accessible Document Consulting and Remediation
https://www.justaccessibility.com/

Hosted in Canada Surveys
http://www.hostedincanadasurveys.ca/

User avatar
monty
MAACA Half-ling
Posts: 670
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:42 pm
Location: Ottawa

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by monty »

tom_454 wrote:The CDN dollar of course can alter things drastically. A sudden return to par with the US greenback would mean a lot of CDN "investors" would lose their returns. Those $7k+ StarBurst NIB GhostBusters pins (for example) would suddenly be worth $5k. Ouch.
i agree - i think a lot of people have ignored this or just don't realize how much it's been factored into market pricing. especially for the rarer 'A-Titles' where the used market isn't as deep in Canada. the exchange rate could revert back closer to par and change pin prices fairly substantially. both used and NIB.

here's a good 5 year snapshot of the exchange rate. it somewhat lines up with pin pricing - from 2015 on is when pin prices in Canada seemed to really jump.

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from= ... AD&view=5Y

it's obviously not the only factor driving the market, but it certainly plays a big part of what pins trade at here in Canada.

as for HPR's question - i think it's the less desirable pinball titles that still have room to move. mostly EM/SS stuff (or woodrails? :mrgreen:). the prices of 90's Williams A-listers is quite absurd right now and can't keep going up forever.

User avatar
cdnpinballer
MAACA Wacko
Posts: 2748
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:48 am
Location: Ottawa, Ontario

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by cdnpinballer »

If you look at that FX graph over 10 years one of the lowest points was early May 2011.

That was a GREAT year for Canadians at the Allentown show. :D

User avatar
quarter grabber
MAACA Half-ling
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:52 am
Location: Ottawa

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by quarter grabber »

Never never never buy a pinball based on an investment. Just ask ALJO ;)

ALJO
MAACA Motormouth
Posts: 2064
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:10 pm
Location: Quebec city

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by ALJO »

quarter grabber wrote:Never never never buy a pinball based on an investment. Just ask ALJO ;)

Thanks, but Vector was restored because I thought I would like it....and keep it, it was my mistake to not play with it a while before restoring.
I never buy pinball machines as an investement, it's a hobby for me, sometimes you lose money, sometimes you gain when reselling, you can't make a living just by buying and selling these machines, if you do try to do so "you'll be on the street" ;) after not too long.

User avatar
Lowrent
MAACA Half-ling
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:06 pm
Location: Saint-Lambert

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by Lowrent »

You can get a lot more than a price double in 5 years if you choose stocks wisely.

But, sadly, you can't play with your RRSPs in the basement.

User avatar
tombiosis
MAACA QuarterPounder
Posts: 398
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:44 am
Location: Ottawa ON
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by tombiosis »

" from 2015 on is when pin prices in Canada seemed to really jump."

bought my first pin in April 2016! :FP: :( :FP:
Pins: 8BDlx, Frontier, The Walking Dead Pro,Fish Tales, Iron Maiden Pro, Deadpool Pro
Gone but not forgotten: 6M$M, Sorcerer, WPT, Elvis, Centaur II, Sure Shot, Firepower, Big Buck Hunter Pro.

WTB: Fathom, TSPP, BSD, GOT.


Quit talking and start chalking!

User avatar
Honey Badger
MAACA Wacko
Posts: 3010
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:41 pm
Location: Ottawa
Been liked: 3 times

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by Honey Badger »

HPR...Stern Dragonfist...that is the next classic Stern that will skyrocket! Gameplay is phenomenal!


Who cares about pricing?...buy what you like and as much as you like and can afford. You only live once and if you enjoy it, do it. I live every day to the MAX!
WTB: Cyclopes, Split Second, Flight 2000, Warlok, BMX, Alien Star, Stern Iron Maiden SS, Vampire, Superman

User avatar
DrDude
MAACA Half-ling
Posts: 544
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:29 pm
Location: Manotick/Ottawa
Contact:

Re: Pinball investment questioning ?

Post by DrDude »

Honey Badger wrote:HPR...Stern Dragonfist...that is the next classics during that will skyrocket! Gameplay is phenomenal!
I've never had a chance to check out a Dragonfist (only 302 made). What makes this game special? Can't really see it from the playfield layout..
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Lightning, Nineball, Cheetah, Seawitch, Catacomb
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Balls-a-Poppin, Catacomb slingshot plastics
Lust-worthy: Dragonfist, Solar Fire, Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

Post Reply

Return to “Pinball machines (SS/DMD)”