Nineball Resurrection: Latest Progress

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DrDude
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Re: Nineball: Latest Progress

Post by DrDude »

redketchup wrote:Was curious to see pics if you have time... i will try to retrofit with a f2k part if possible.
Here's a closeup of the solenoid-end of the linkage on the Nineball 9-bank:
IMG_20170329_074509.jpg
As you can see, the reset-bar is directly attached to the pivet-rod. Contrast this with the 3-bank from my Seawitch:
IMG_20170329_084348.jpg
You can see that the reset-bar is attached only to the plunger-link, and that the pivot-rod is attached to small arm via the two set-screws, and that the small arm in turn is linked to the reset-bar. It's simply a different design. There is room in the Nineball's reset bar to weld the set-screw collar to it I guess, or else grind off the direct attachment and add a Seawitch-style linkage-arm.
redketchup wrote:Maybe you can grind a little bit of your plunger to make it travel little more...
Yeah, that might work, though I hate mods like that!
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Lightning, Nineball, Cheetah, Seawitch, Catacomb
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Balls-a-Poppin, Catacomb slingshot plastics
Lust-worthy: Dragonfist, Solar Fire, Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: Nineball: Latest Progress

Post by redketchup »

thank's Very interesting!

This 9 bank need a solenoid in the other end like 6 bank on fathom
Bally Centaur, Fathom, Stern Big Game, Flight 2000, Quicksilver, Catacomb, Stargazer, Nineball, Metallica Pro, Iron Maiden Pro, Wurlitzer 41, 700, 750e, 1100, 1900, 1700, Rockola 1428, tempo 1, seeburg HF 100R, VL 200, Ami I
To see it: http://www.pinballowners.com/redketchup

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Re: Nineball: Latest Progress

Post by DrDude »

redketchup wrote:thank's Very interesting!

This 9 bank need a solenoid in the other end like 6 bank on fathom
Yes, and in fact I could add it, since there is HW (screw-holes, etc) that would allow it. Not sure if that would blow the solenoid fuse though. I would likely have to downgrade the coil (it's a really big one: a 1600 vs. a 2300 for the 3-banks, with smaller numbers indicating stronger coils). Also, there is one feature-lamp (the arrow for the multi-ball lock) that would end up squished under the coil. In the end, adding a second coil might be the best solution.
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Lightning, Nineball, Cheetah, Seawitch, Catacomb
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Balls-a-Poppin, Catacomb slingshot plastics
Lust-worthy: Dragonfist, Solar Fire, Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: Nineball: Latest Progress

Post by DrDude »

OK, having pulled the 9-bank again, I think the double-solenoid solution is going to be the most practical, since the only "hack" I will have to perform is to change the feature lamp-socket from a "stand-up" style to a "sideways" style so that it lies flat against the insert, and will thus fit under the newly introduced coil. I have two complete 3-banks from my spares, so have the appropriate coils and mounting HW. The 9-bank is completely symmetrical, so already has all the screw-holes for mounting the other coil.

Thanks for reminding me about the Bally solution to this problem, redketchup! This is likely to be something I can try out today!
Last edited by DrDude on Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Lightning, Nineball, Cheetah, Seawitch, Catacomb
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Balls-a-Poppin, Catacomb slingshot plastics
Lust-worthy: Dragonfist, Solar Fire, Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: Nineball: Latest Progress

Post by redketchup »

Let us know the process and the result!
Bally Centaur, Fathom, Stern Big Game, Flight 2000, Quicksilver, Catacomb, Stargazer, Nineball, Metallica Pro, Iron Maiden Pro, Wurlitzer 41, 700, 750e, 1100, 1900, 1700, Rockola 1428, tempo 1, seeburg HF 100R, VL 200, Ami I
To see it: http://www.pinballowners.com/redketchup

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Re: Nineball: Latest Progress

Post by DrDude »

Change of plans: I found a parts 5-4-3-2-1 bank from F2K in my junk-pile, and it turns out that it is actually a 9-bank identical to Nineball. The good part is that it has the set-screw style reset-arm and all parts. The bad part is that the reset-arm had broken at some point and been welded to fix it, so it's a bit crusty. I am trying to replace the Nineball's reset-arm with the one from F2K, and see how it goes, since that is how some games actually shipped.
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Lightning, Nineball, Cheetah, Seawitch, Catacomb
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Balls-a-Poppin, Catacomb slingshot plastics
Lust-worthy: Dragonfist, Solar Fire, Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: Nineball: Latest Progress

Post by DrDude »

Well, here it is, ugly as all get out, but the bank now resets perfectly every time:
IMG_20170329_114226.jpg
I will have to look for a better condition F2K bank at some point, unless someone has at least the reset-bar in their parts pile: I don't trust those welds to hold forever, and the alignment of the welded reset-bar is not perfect so it is putting some stress on the pivot axle.

Game is getting closer! Next problem is that the horse-shoe drop-target, when down, is too far down leaving a slot for the ball to get hung up. There doesn't seem to be any adjustment there, but I guess normally the target only goes down long enough to count the points, and then immediately resets, so perhaps that is just the way it is? I have to admit, I only got the ball stuck once by fluke (weak shot with lots of spin).
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Lightning, Nineball, Cheetah, Seawitch, Catacomb
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Balls-a-Poppin, Catacomb slingshot plastics
Lust-worthy: Dragonfist, Solar Fire, Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: Nineball: Latest Progress

Post by redketchup »

I would like to have a new reset bar for my F2K also... mine as been solder somewhere in it's life... Do you think we can have it reproduce... we can share the cost?
Bally Centaur, Fathom, Stern Big Game, Flight 2000, Quicksilver, Catacomb, Stargazer, Nineball, Metallica Pro, Iron Maiden Pro, Wurlitzer 41, 700, 750e, 1100, 1900, 1700, Rockola 1428, tempo 1, seeburg HF 100R, VL 200, Ami I
To see it: http://www.pinballowners.com/redketchup

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Re: Nineball: Latest Progress

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I had another thought: it actually should be possible to simply "twist" or torque the much more robust Nineball reset-bar: If it was twisted by just a few degrees, it would be enough to give the desired boost to the targets furthest from the solenoid. Given how much thicker it is, this twist would probably stay put over time. I really should have thought of that earlier, but hey the Nineball is a lot closer now!
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Lightning, Nineball, Cheetah, Seawitch, Catacomb
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Balls-a-Poppin, Catacomb slingshot plastics
Lust-worthy: Dragonfist, Solar Fire, Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: Nineball: Latest Progress

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Well, I actually took it all apart again, and tried out the "twist the sucker" approach. Here's why:
IMG_20170329_133555.jpg
Note the crappy/thin/welded F2K reset-bar on top, and the quite robust Nineball one below. There's a reason the F2K bars are often welded: There's not much metal there at the stress points! The Nineball reset-bar is at least 3x wider, and the pivot holes are much more robustly attached to the bottom plate. By simply putting one end of the bar in a vice and reefing on the other end with a pair of pliers, I was able to give the end opposite the solenoid about 1/16" of lift, which was enough to make the targets reset perfectly every time. It's possible that, over time, the bar will tend to bend back, but it's good for now (and if so, I know how to fix it again). So I'm back to original parts, having learned a lot about Stern drop-target mechanisms. I hope you all enjoyed the journey as much as I hated it (very filthy job, even with almost the entire mechanism having been washed and wiped down).

I believe the next biggest problem is my switch matrix: I suspect I've got at least one bad diode somewhere, as the left sling-shot is very jumpy despite being gapped too wide, and certain switches (like the spinner) don't register well despite being cleaned and gapped nicely. Will track that down next, but I think that's enough Nineball fun for one day..
Last edited by DrDude on Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Lightning, Nineball, Cheetah, Seawitch, Catacomb
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Balls-a-Poppin, Catacomb slingshot plastics
Lust-worthy: Dragonfist, Solar Fire, Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: Nineball: Latest Progress

Post by redketchup »

Good job! Always fun to look at... when this isn't our pin! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Bally Centaur, Fathom, Stern Big Game, Flight 2000, Quicksilver, Catacomb, Stargazer, Nineball, Metallica Pro, Iron Maiden Pro, Wurlitzer 41, 700, 750e, 1100, 1900, 1700, Rockola 1428, tempo 1, seeburg HF 100R, VL 200, Ami I
To see it: http://www.pinballowners.com/redketchup

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Re: Nineball: Latest Progress

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redketchup wrote:Good job! Always fun to look at... when this isn't our pin! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Thanks! I was despairing about Nineball yesterday, when I realized the newly cleaned 9-bank was resetting poorly, and that I might need new parts to make it work. I was this close to bumping it to the back of the restoration queue (which would have meant Centaur would be coming out of the basement). Pinball despair is a bad feeling indeed. But now I'm feeling good again, and I want to get this sucker dialled-in so I can experience the buggy-wonder that is version 60 of the original SW!
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Lightning, Nineball, Cheetah, Seawitch, Catacomb
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Balls-a-Poppin, Catacomb slingshot plastics
Lust-worthy: Dragonfist, Solar Fire, Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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Re: Nineball Resurrection: Latest Progress

Post by Drano »

I played mine again last night with spiroagnew and all of the bugs seemed to have shaken out. Balls were locking correctly, a 3 ball multiball was started. All was right with the world.

A few games later it decided to only kick out one of the two locked balls after the game ended and then it proceeded to load 2 balls into the shooter lane shortly after. It required a hard reset to get it thinking correctly again.

"buggy-wonder" indeed!

Still, it's pretty kick ass :D

Also brought home a Stern STARS last night.
If I line up Stars, Meteor, Nine Ball and bring home my SoF, I could have quite the little shrine to Steve Kirk!

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Re: Nineball Resurrection: Latest Progress

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Drano wrote:Also brought home a Stern STARS last night.
If I line up Stars, Meteor, Nine Ball and bring home my SoF, I could have quite the little shrine to Steve Kirk!
That would be very cool! SK-1, SK-3, SK-5 in a row! You really need to track down a Truck Stop (or the very rare Ramp Warrior prototype) to complete that collection!
Grant Goodes
Stern: Meteor, Lightning, Nineball, Cheetah, Seawitch, Catacomb
Bally: Fathom x 2, Centaur
Gottlieb: Black Hole
Wanted: Balls-a-Poppin, Catacomb slingshot plastics
Lust-worthy: Dragonfist, Solar Fire, Funhouse, Skateball, Capersville

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