Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

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sped
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Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby sped » Thu Jul 19, 2018 9:05 am

new to this board and new to owning a classic arcade game.

Bought this game from a barcade that had it for use by customers for about 2 years.

I tested the game and brought it home and it was fine for a few days. then an issue appeared with the display. (amplifone 25")

as luck would have it I found a video of my actual machine being repaired for that same issue (before I purchased it). (video is in french but it doesn't matter, just look at 2 minute 32 seconds. you'll see what the issue is. the only difference is that the issue I have is with the red, not the green.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uPE_jpVDH0

In the video, they mention it might be an accumulation of carbon between the green canon and the G1.

They tried rejuvenating the screen and it finally died. they replaced it with another amplifone 25" screen (which is the one I am supposed to have in the cabinet).

I tested the game before i Purchased it and it seemed to work fine. colors were a little faint but still very playable. no issues outside of that.

I brought it home, played with it maybe 30 minutes then again 4 more seperate times over the course of a week and the last time I played it, after about 10 minutes, the issue you see in the video appeared.

I'm thinking, the issue might not have been as they initially thought and it might still be undiagnosed (and unfixed)

I've looked on the net and in this and other boards but haven't found an image, video or description of an issue that is similar.

I am very green when it comes to these old machines. I do have all the manuals but haven't attempted any testing or diagnosis.

hoping someone here on the board can provide direction. (I've also contacted the techs in the video but they still haven't replied)

I've also contacted a local tech but am hoping to get as much info and insight before having someone start working on tried to find and fix the problem (if it's fixable).

any help will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Serge.
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mdeslaur
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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby mdeslaur » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:34 am

That doesn't look like a tube issue to me, that looks like a deflection board issue, a main board issue, or simply a bad connection between them.

First thing I'd do is clean the edge connector.

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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby HPR Pinball » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:10 pm

Look like the ''Z'' deflection or the brightness adjustment is weak . Check the available net troubleshooting about this and i'm pretty sure you will fix that problem. Most video games problems are related to cold solder or bad connectors.
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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby sylvain » Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:38 pm

I had run into a couple of similar issues many moons ago when I used to work part-time in a TV radio repair shop in Montreal-East, while studying at university.
If one color goes to the max after a few minutes, it could be cold solder joints on the neckboard, a bad color drive transistor or adjustment potentiometers for that particular color. But unfortunately it also can be an internal short cathode to G1 or heater to cathode inside the tube neck/electron guns for that specific color.

As Martin explained on the youtube video, it is risky to attempt to clear the internal short even with the proper rejuvenator apparatus.
I was successful in one out of two cases for a small 14 inch color TV at the time.

Good luck/Bonne chance!
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mdeslaur
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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby mdeslaur » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:54 am

sylvain wrote:But unfortunately it also can be an internal short cathode to G1 or heater to cathode inside the tube neck/electron guns for that specific color.


Oh, yeah, that's possible too.

sped
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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby sped » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:15 am

Guys,

I truly appreciate your comments and suggestions. now all I need to find is a tech that can start troubleshooting based on the avenues you've suggested. Can anyone suggest a tech or company that would be able to come to Blainville (were the game is located) and do some testing and or repairs? Alternatively I could send the machine to someone's shop, but that would be a major hassle since it is in a downstairs basement (but still doable if needed).

I have contacted someone from the yellow pages. waiting on a reply. I've also tried to contact Martin in the video a couple of times via his email and linkedin. I haven't received a response.

Thanks again.

Serge.
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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby HPR Pinball » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:38 am

sped wrote:Guys,

I truly appreciate your comments and suggestions. now all I need to find is a tech that can start troubleshooting based on the avenues you've suggested. Can anyone suggest a tech or company that would be able to come to Blainville (were the game is located) and do some testing and or repairs? Alternatively I could send the machine to someone's shop, but that would be a major hassle since it is in a downstairs basement (but still doable if needed).

I have contacted someone from the yellow pages. waiting on a reply. I've also tried to contact Martin in the video a couple of times via his email and linkedin. I haven't received a response.

Thanks again.

Serge.


Je te suggère de commencer par la base. Enlève tout les boards et regarde pour les soudure craquées au niveau des connecteurs et ensuite au niveau des composantes.

Aussi avant ca, vu que le prob semble intermittent et n'apparais que lorsque les board chauffent, prend un pti bout de bois asser long, allume la game et appui légèrement sur les boards pour voir si le problème n'apparais pas, ca va te diriger tout de suite vers la composante a problème. Ne touche a rien avec tes mains sinon sinon les 20,000 volts du moniteur chargé pourrais te blessé très gravement ou même pire.
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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby sped » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:43 pm

HPR Pinball wrote:
sped wrote:Guys,

I truly appreciate your comments and suggestions. now all I need to find is a tech that can start troubleshooting based on the avenues you've suggested. Can anyone suggest a tech or company that would be able to come to Blainville (were the game is located) and do some testing and or repairs? Alternatively I could send the machine to someone's shop, but that would be a major hassle since it is in a downstairs basement (but still doable if needed).

I have contacted someone from the yellow pages. waiting on a reply. I've also tried to contact Martin in the video a couple of times via his email and linkedin. I haven't received a response.

Thanks again.

Serge.


Je te suggère de commencer par la base. Enlève tout les boards et regarde pour les soudure craquées au niveau des connecteurs et ensuite au niveau des composantes.

Aussi avant ca, vu que le prob semble intermittent et n'apparais que lorsque les board chauffent, prend un pti bout de bois asser long, allume la game et appui légèrement sur les boards pour voir si le problème n'apparais pas, ca va te diriger tout de suite vers la composante a problème. Ne touche a rien avec tes mains sinon sinon les 20,000 volts du moniteur chargé pourrais te blessé très gravement ou même pire.


MErci du conseil, quand tu dis: appuie légèrement sur les boards.... sur le board lui même pour le faire "flexer" un peu ou sur les composantes sur le board? (dans les deux cas j'ai vraiment la chienne mais si c'est ça qu'il faut faire..... :?

aussi: je viens d'aller jouer avec la game (j'a fait 4 waves complets et je n'ai pas eu de problèmes. donc logiquement si c'étais un short, ca serais pas intermittent, non? Ca serait continuel a chaque fois que j'allumerais la game?

Merci!

Serge.
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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby EvanDickson » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:46 pm

Not helpful for your issue, but when I saw you bought it from a bar and the video was I French I thought "please not the one from Mcfly!". Congrats on your score and I hope you get it working. I'll miss it next time I'm in Quebec City.

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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby HPR Pinball » Sun Jul 22, 2018 2:11 pm

sped wrote:
HPR Pinball wrote:
sped wrote:Guys,

I truly appreciate your comments and suggestions. now all I need to find is a tech that can start troubleshooting based on the avenues you've suggested. Can anyone suggest a tech or company that would be able to come to Blainville (were the game is located) and do some testing and or repairs? Alternatively I could send the machine to someone's shop, but that would be a major hassle since it is in a downstairs basement (but still doable if needed).

I have contacted someone from the yellow pages. waiting on a reply. I've also tried to contact Martin in the video a couple of times via his email and linkedin. I haven't received a response.

Thanks again.

Serge.


Je te suggère de commencer par la base. Enlève tout les boards et regarde pour les soudure craquées au niveau des connecteurs et ensuite au niveau des composantes.

Aussi avant ca, vu que le prob semble intermittent et n'apparais que lorsque les board chauffent, prend un pti bout de bois asser long, allume la game et appui légèrement sur les boards pour voir si le problème n'apparais pas, ca va te diriger tout de suite vers la composante a problème. Ne touche a rien avec tes mains sinon sinon les 20,000 volts du moniteur chargé pourrais te blessé très gravement ou même pire.


MErci du conseil, quand tu dis: appuie légèrement sur les boards.... sur le board lui même pour le faire "flexer" un peu ou sur les composantes sur le board? (dans les deux cas j'ai vraiment la chienne mais si c'est ça qu'il faut faire..... :?

aussi: je viens d'aller jouer avec la game (j'a fait 4 waves complets et je n'ai pas eu de problèmes. donc logiquement si c'étais un short, ca serais pas intermittent, non? Ca serait continuel a chaque fois que j'allumerais la game?

Merci!

Serge.


Oui tu appuie sur le board et s'il le faut appuie aussi sur les composantes.

La théorie derrière ca est que si tu a une micro fissure dans une soudure ou de la corrosion et une fissure sur une patte de une de tes composante, la chaleur fait en sorte de la dilaté et le courant électrique ne passe plus. En appuyant sur le board tu va provoquer le problème et trouver a quel endriot ca se produit.
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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby sped » Mon Jul 23, 2018 12:22 pm

EvanDickson wrote:Not helpful for your issue, but when I saw you bought it from a bar and the video was I French I thought "please not the one from Mcfly!". Congrats on your score and I hope you get it working. I'll miss it next time I'm in Quebec City.


Hi Evan,

Yes, funny story, I've been wanting to get a star wars cockpit even since I was 12 years old. I've seriously been looking for about 10 years. looking a t ebay listing, kijiji every now and then... some company in the UK refurbishes them for 5K pounds sterling. the ones on ebay are 7K plus. (saw one recently sell for 4K...).

so about 3 years ago there was an event in the old port of Montreal: a video game expo. everything from arcades to console and PC games. a buddy of mine went to the show and told me there was a star wars cockpit there. I went 2 weeks later to find the machine there with an "out of order sign" on it. I swear I almost cried.

forward 2 years. I go to the Macfly with some friends. we get there and in the corner of the bar, there is a star wars cockpit , in bad shape, not working. I ask the owner what they plan on doing with it. They tell me they are waiting on some parts and will be restoring it and making it available to their customers. Great! I contact the bar every couple of months to find out if the game is operational. they keep saying, it's coming, but not yet.

Forward another 2 years to this spring. contact them again (it's been about 8 months since my last message to them). I found out they finally got it working (it's been o the floor for a while).... great! I contact a couple friends and we decide to go.... stuff happens and we don't go... forward another couple of months to late june of this year. I finally decide to go by myself. I contact the bar to find out if it's still working (you never know, and it'a a 6 hour round trip from my place)...

They tell me the news: it's been disconnected and they are going to sell it. My heart sinks. then I think to myself, well, might as well find out what they want for it. The price was much less than I was expecting. They did mention the screen was "weak" but when I went there to test it, it seemed a little dim but still very playable (I later saw on youtube that mine is a bright (or as dim) as all the other ones. Maybe I'm just used to brighter screens...and it is almost 40 years old... So I bit the bullet, put a deposit on it and came back a week later and picked it up.

the cabinet is in pretty good shape overall, needs a little TLC. the top fiberglass part needs to be replaced (it flew off when they brought the machine over to the MacFly in a pickup. the top is in 3 pieces now. I saw that there is a site where you can get a replacement piece of fiberglass that has the correct shape for the back part. it needs new t-mouldings all around and some particle wood repairs. but nothing major. (unless the screen goes). Oh, and it has the ESB board in it too!

So yeah, I was very lucky in the end.

Serge.
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sped
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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby sped » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:06 pm

Update. Did a self test. There is a hardware error:
Program rom3 at 1kl 3171 (whatever that means :shock: )

Also, the image issue i described in my previous post reappeared. But it is just for a moment then goes away. I will attach a pic.
20180723_163330.jpg
Image distortion 1


Finally i can see that the image is slightly distorted (especially on the left) a pincushion type inwards curve.

The rest of the tests showed one more issue with the controler

In self test page where you test the controler movement, there is a green square inside a white square. Everywhere except at the top, the controler "reaches" to the white square. At the top it only reaches to the green square. Not sure what it is axtually supposed to do. I'll attach pics for this as well.
20180723_161949.jpg
Pin cushion distortion
20180723_162300.jpg
Controler "reach" bottom right
20180723_162305.jpg
Controler reach bottom left
20180723_162310.jpg
Controler reach top right
20180723_162323.jpg
Controler reach top left

20180723_162316.jpg
Controler reach top center


And here are the rest of the self test pages
20180723_161751.jpg
20180723_161933.jpg
20180723_161949.jpg


Btw, sorry about the glare. I realized afterwards i should have put a cover over the cockpit to block the backgroung light....
Last edited by sped on Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby sped » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:08 pm

The other test page pics
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20180723_162241.jpg
20180723_161959.jpg
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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby Steph » Mon Jul 23, 2018 4:16 pm

sped wrote: Did a self test. There is a hardware error:
Program rom3 at 1kl 3171 (whatever that means :shock: )



There is a rom chip at location 1 K/L on the main CPU. (it should be a 2764 eprom) . It is bad.

The value "3171" is the binary "checksum" value read from the chip.
It should be "F839" (hex value).

I can provide you with a replacement chip.

PM me ( username = Steph, real name = Steph ! ;-)

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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby HPR Pinball » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:35 am

Ton moniteur est bien un amplifone ? Il ne devrait pas y avoir de pincushion messemble.
Le problème de pincushion c'est quand on installe un WG en remplacement, c'est ce que j'ai dans ma Star Wars.
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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby HPR Pinball » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:39 am

Pour ce qui est de ton rom 3 error. Je te suggère d'enlevé tes chips de rom et de les replacer car avec les années il se fait de la corrosion entre les pattes et les sockets, c'est la première chose a faire avant d'aller plus loin.
Et inspecte pour voir s'il n'y aurait pas de corrocion excessive en même temps.
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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby sped » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:16 am

HPR Pinball wrote:Ton moniteur est bien un amplifone ? Il ne devrait pas y avoir de pincushion messemble.
Le problème de pincushion c'est quand on installe un WG en remplacement, c'est ce que j'ai dans ma Star Wars.


C'est un "Rauland". De ce que je comprends c'est la même chose qu'un amplifone. voir photo des tags sur l'écran.

Est-ce que Rauland ont acheté Amplifone? ou c'est une copie d'un amplifone? :thinking
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20180722_121238.jpg
Amplifone Rauland.
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sped
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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby sped » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:21 am

HPR Pinball wrote:Pour ce qui est de ton rom 3 error. Je te suggère d'enlevé tes chips de rom et de les replacer car avec les années il se fait de la corrosion entre les pattes et les sockets, c'est la première chose a faire avant d'aller plus loin.
Et inspecte pour voir s'il n'y aurait pas de corrocion excessive en même temps.


Je vais essayer.

est-ce que les boards sont tres fragiles? j'ai souvent manipuler des boards de PC mais jamais aussi vieux que ceux dans cette machine. je veux juste pas briser quelque chose....

Si cest vraiment la piece qui est défectueuse, j'ai déjà un membre qui peux me fournir la piece de remplacement. (MErci Steph!) et merci HPR Pinpall pour le conseil.
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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby mdeslaur » Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:55 am

Rauland c'est le fabricant des tubes des écrans Amplifone.

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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby HPR Pinball » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:11 pm

Désolé de ne pas y avoir pensé avant mais sur klov il y a une section complete dédié a la réparation de moniteurs.
Tu risque d'y recevoir de bon conseils et peut-être de connaitre la source exacte de ton problème.

https://forums.arcade-museum.com/index.php
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Re: Atari star wars cockpit display issue.

Postby sped » Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:45 am

Merci. J'ai posté sur klov deja. Mais dans la section "general repairs" ( me souviens pas du nom exact) etant donné que je n'etais pas certain que ce soit un probleme d'ecran comme tel. Je peux vous dire que j'ai eu plus de feedback ici.

Merci encore. Je vais faire les tests de boards et de replacer le chip demain... je vous donnerai mes resultats.

Serge
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