Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal), no free games

Talk about anything that you would like.

Do you think North Star should restore extra-ball and replay settings?

Indifferent
10
20%
Yes, please!
41
80%
 
Total votes: 51

mbudman
MAACA Super Contributor
Posts: 309
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:33 pm
Location: Montreal
Been liked: 1 time

Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal), no free games

Post by mbudman »

I went to Northstar last night for the first time this year. Very disappointed!!! The new machines no longer give free games or extra balls. These features are an important aspect of pinball and are part of what makes it exciting. Come on guys wake up!!!

Without these features, it makes pinball playing less attractive. The thrill of getting the skill shot for an extra ball or winning a free game is part of pinball; not having it is like have a car without wheels.

I would like everyone who agrees with me to go Northstar's facebook page, https://www.facebook.com/northstarpinball/ and post your opinions on such a stupid move.

Bring back real pinball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks!

Mark

User avatar
Mrhide
MAACA OG
Posts: 12182
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:59 pm
Location: Laval
Has liked: 425 times
Been liked: 258 times

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal)

Post by Mrhide »

maybe its because you're not good enough ? :twisted:
LF: GrooveCoaster Machine, shmups or any PCB, specifically Namco System 1 (Pacmania), let me know what you have!

mbudman
MAACA Super Contributor
Posts: 309
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:33 pm
Location: Montreal
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal)

Post by mbudman »

It is not a question of being good, it is not possible to even win a free game or make a skill shot for extra ball. The pinball machines at Northstar no longer provide the opportunity to win an extra ball or the chance to win a free game.

Adam (one of the owners) explained that Northstar needs a permit (from Quebec) on each pinball that is to give a free game or extra ball. Without the permit, these features have to be disabled.

Northstar has decided not to purchase the permits and therefore disabled these features!!!!!!!!!!

The cost for the permit is not unreasonable.

Bring real pinball to Northstar!!!!!!!

mbudman
MAACA Super Contributor
Posts: 309
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:33 pm
Location: Montreal
Been liked: 1 time

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal)

Post by mbudman »

Yeah, but they get the tax back...

Less than $3/ week per machine

Do it right or don't do it at all....
Last edited by mbudman on Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Mindstorm88
MAACA Mega Contributor
Posts: 1350
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:41 am
Location: Sorel-Tracy, Qc
Has liked: 44 times
Been liked: 52 times

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal)

Post by Mindstorm88 »

Sparky wrote:
If it were like the old fees at 450$+ per year, I would kinda understand. But for so little, the cost will outweigh the saving.

Pay the small fees, boys. Turn on the knockers.
BTW they were paying the old fees and giving extra ball and games. So now, they went all the way cheap !!! not happy with that decision !!! Winning a free play has been part of playing Pinball forever !!!

EvanDickson
MAACA New Contributor
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:51 pm
Location: Charlottetown, PEI

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal), no free games

Post by EvanDickson »

The poll is a bit biased. :)

This outrage is misplaced. Businesses like bars operate on razor thin margins to begin with, this one in particular invests way more heavily in their clients' enjoyment than any other place would, by a large amount. I make a point of stopping in Montreal just for the Northstar, every time I travel to Quebec or Ontario because of the great games, the great staff, and the great vibe in the place.

Pins are not cheap, maintenance is regular and costs time and money. If they move 40 machines through that place over the course of a year, which seems like a conservative guess, then you're looking at an additional $6,000 in expense that just got levied on them in a tax grab by the prpvince. $6,000 per year may well make the difference between solvency and insolvency for a place like this. The outrage would be better placed against the province and city that is constantly putting the squeeze on small businesses like this for more money. Free balls and free games are nice, but the games are just as fun without them, and the only options may well be no free games or no games at all.

User avatar
Dave W.
MAACA Super Contributor
Posts: 611
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:20 pm
Location: Montreal (Ile Perrot)
Has liked: 43 times
Been liked: 30 times

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal), no free games

Post by Dave W. »

Not a deal breaker for me... I'll play at NorthStar regardless. It is kind of a nice pat on the back to get a free game every now and then. They can set the free game score fairly high to avoid people just running up free credits.

EvanDickson
MAACA New Contributor
Posts: 99
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:51 pm
Location: Charlottetown, PEI

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal), no free games

Post by EvanDickson »

Dave W. wrote:Not a deal breaker for me... I'll play at NorthStar regardless. It is kind of a nice pat on the back to get a free game every now and then. They can set the free game score fairly high to avoid people just running up free credits.
Sounds like that's still going to lead to additional expenses for them though. The problem is not the free games or free balls, it's the cost per license per machine to allow free games.

User avatar
eightball
MAACA New Contributor
Posts: 82
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 6:14 pm
Location: Ottawa

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal), no free games

Post by eightball »

Location pinball without the chance to win a free game just feels wrong to me. I am planning to hit the North Star this Saturday, and this news will in no way change my plans, but I must say I am a tad bummed to learn this...I had visions of winning a game or two :D

That said, if there was a way to activate the knocker upon a high score without awarding the free play....that would make it almost ok for me. I need to hear the sweet, sweet sound of that knocker!
Playing: Eight Ball, Sky Jump, Paragon, Dirty Harry, AC/DC pro
Gone but not forgotten: Harlem Globetrotters
Wanted: More space for pinball machines

User avatar
Honey Badger
MAACA Mega Contributor
Posts: 3086
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:41 pm
Location: Ottawa
Has liked: 4 times
Been liked: 29 times

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal), no free games

Post by Honey Badger »

I have a pretty good collection yet I still enjoy playing location games. The only reason I go out to play location games is the fact that it still gives me a rush to earn an extra ball or a free game through a high score or a match. Take that away and I have zero motivation to go and play public machines.
WTB: Cyclopes, Split Second, Flight 2000, Warlok, BMX, Alien Star, Stern Iron Maiden SS, Vampire, Superman

User avatar
Honey Badger
MAACA Mega Contributor
Posts: 3086
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:41 pm
Location: Ottawa
Has liked: 4 times
Been liked: 29 times

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal), no free games

Post by Honey Badger »

The best memory I ever had at North Star was playing Roberts Golden Arrow and seeing how many Specials I could rack up by nailing the Golden Arrows. Those days are sadly gone now.
WTB: Cyclopes, Split Second, Flight 2000, Warlok, BMX, Alien Star, Stern Iron Maiden SS, Vampire, Superman

User avatar
HPR Pinball
MAACA OG
Posts: 7936
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:53 pm
Location: St-Rose, Laval
Has liked: 15 times
Been liked: 114 times

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal), no free games

Post by HPR Pinball »

Bring back Robotron :lol: :lol:
The video game i want to play is always the one i don't have :FP:
Les arcades, j'suis tombé d'dans quand j'tait pti !! :-)

User avatar
cap
MAACA Mega Contributor
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:19 pm
Location: Laval
Been liked: 30 times

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal), no free games

Post by cap »

Do they still offer free games on promotion nights with a fixed cover charge?
A free game has no value for those nights but is still a rush to achieve.
Judge Dredd, Road Show, Last Action Hero, Rocky & Bullwinkle, Stargate, F14 Tomcat

User avatar
ballyhoo
MAACA Valued Contributor
Posts: 246
Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:09 am
Location: St-Romuald, Quebec, Canada, Terre
Been liked: 4 times
Contact:

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal), no free games

Post by ballyhoo »

They are part of the game and taking them out is in my opinion a big mistake! Honestly, I dont know why we are even speaking about taking them out. Would anyone can think about taking out the cherry from a Cherry Blossom or those small cards from a king cake? Come on guys! Please let the game be the game and let us enjoy the satisfaction of having an extra ball or that knock that we all are waiting for. Just talking about that is surrealist. Those days.... :(
Cyclone - Black Knight Sword of Rage - Heavy Metal Meltdown - Nitro Ground Shaker - Pinbot - Venom - Pinball Pool - Bride of Pinbot - TAXI - NARC(mame) - Sega Mini Turbo - Sega Mini Monaco GP - Robotron - Warlords (cocktail)

"L'ennui en ce monde est que les imbéciles sont sûr d'eux et les gens sensés pleins de doutes"

User avatar
cap
MAACA Mega Contributor
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:19 pm
Location: Laval
Been liked: 30 times

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal), no free games

Post by cap »

ballyhoo wrote:They are part of the game and taking them out is in my opinion a big mistake! Honestly, I dont know why we are even speaking about taking them out. Would anyone can think about taking out the cherry from a Cherry Blossom or those small cards from a king cake? Come on guys! Please let the game be the game and let us enjoy the satisfaction of having an extra ball or that knock that we all are waiting for. Just talking about that is surrealist. Those days.... :(
bsg.jpg
Judge Dredd, Road Show, Last Action Hero, Rocky & Bullwinkle, Stargate, F14 Tomcat

User avatar
nostalgiaqc
MAACA Super Contributor
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:01 am
Location: rawdon
Has liked: 2 times
Been liked: 2 times

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal), no free games

Post by nostalgiaqc »

ONCE AGAIN , the gouvernent is showing us that nothing is free, ils not like you were putting the extra ball in your pocket for crying out loud, lol
Or Winning wads of cash ,but only a free credit in the machine.
They dont want ppl to become gamblers if they dont get their cut..

That Said , a place of business like the north star is runned and operated by people who decided to go this way to save a few bucks.
Honestly i think 80% of the clientèle doesent even know or care about extra balls.
I agree that a pinball game should be with all the classic rules, but i also think that when you run a business you can run it the way you want .

And when you are a Client you can decide to go or not.
Btw they got robotron in last night Max
Thx for your request.
Lol
Yan

User avatar
cait001
MAACA Mega Contributor
Posts: 4900
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:42 pm
Location: Centretown, Ottawa, ON
Has liked: 481 times
Been liked: 225 times

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal), no free games

Post by cait001 »

I'm indifferent. Newer games: I like extra balls turned off, and find the points option compensates fine.
Older games: definitely like the extra balls on, especially considering the scoring is generally fairly shallow and going for the extra balls are part of the main tasks.

Winning free games from Match feature? I don't care really. Matches are such a quaint anachronism, I'm surprised they have survived into the 21st century basically unchanged.
Winning free games on old machines, I wish they could all be converted into a points bonus. I love the Pascal boards that update Gottlieb system 1 to give 50k points instead of a Special.
The older you go, the more integral the concept of Specials was in the game design, so there are a few games that would certainly suffer, but few games like that get operated anywhere anyways.
backglasses wanted: Star-Jet, Fairy, Star Trek (1971 Gottlieb)
marquees wanted: Roller Aces, Quiz Dragon, Strider, Varkon, Dark Planet, R-Type (w/ship), Quantum, Ninja (Sega)
blog -- collection -- want list -- Pinball Women Ottawa -- Ottawa Pinball Map -- ratings

hfpinball
MAACA New Contributor
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:25 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal), no free games

Post by hfpinball »

Dont mind personally, will still go after winter , but wondering, the license to have pinball i think now gone? Iv read that somewhere. Does the free game. Xball setting is another license?

And jesus, stop complaining at games at 1$, even at that price im pretty sure its hard to get even on a 10k machine.

User avatar
cait001
MAACA Mega Contributor
Posts: 4900
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:42 pm
Location: Centretown, Ottawa, ON
Has liked: 481 times
Been liked: 225 times

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal), no free games

Post by cait001 »

Sparky wrote:What I consider to be the "royal flush" of pinball... something I have witnessed only ONCE in almost 40 years of playing...

... the 4 knocks of a quadruple match!!!

I remember getting that with buddies in 1987 at Pinocchio's on a High Speed. The place went completely nuts. We felt like we won the 6/49.

THAT... that is what needs to be available. The feeling that you just can't get at home, no matter how you try.
Take a step back and think about what's happening with a Match. Doesn't it just seem like an odd throwback to anyone else?
Why is it still there?
Think about if you lose in Street Fighter 4 arcade and a number spins around then awards you a free credit. That would seem out of place, but we're just used to it through the pinball tradition.
But it is just like a tiny lottery at the end, with no relation to the game whatsoever.

I grew up on pinball thanks to Match wins, taking credits from people that had walked away thinking their game was over. But I still think it's odd.
backglasses wanted: Star-Jet, Fairy, Star Trek (1971 Gottlieb)
marquees wanted: Roller Aces, Quiz Dragon, Strider, Varkon, Dark Planet, R-Type (w/ship), Quantum, Ninja (Sega)
blog -- collection -- want list -- Pinball Women Ottawa -- Ottawa Pinball Map -- ratings

User avatar
cait001
MAACA Mega Contributor
Posts: 4900
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 3:42 pm
Location: Centretown, Ottawa, ON
Has liked: 481 times
Been liked: 225 times

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal), no free games

Post by cait001 »

hfpinball wrote:And jesus, stop complaining at games at 1$, even at that price im pretty sure its hard to get even on a 10k machine.
Yup, and a quarter in 1979 is worth $0.82 today.
When Black Hole came out in 1981 it was 50 cents a credit, or the equivalent of 1.32 today.
And back then operators had no problem getting quarters, but now it can take 1-3 years to cover the capital costs of a new routed pinball machines.
backglasses wanted: Star-Jet, Fairy, Star Trek (1971 Gottlieb)
marquees wanted: Roller Aces, Quiz Dragon, Strider, Varkon, Dark Planet, R-Type (w/ship), Quantum, Ninja (Sega)
blog -- collection -- want list -- Pinball Women Ottawa -- Ottawa Pinball Map -- ratings

User avatar
mattnb
MAACA New Contributor
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:53 am
Location: Halifax, NS

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal), no free games

Post by mattnb »

(edit: the top part of my post got cut off)
These types of threads always disappoint me, to be honest. Operating pinball is a difficult business and profits (if they exist) are razor-thin. Don't believe me? Ask yourself why a major city like Montreal only has a few dozen machines on location. If operating machines was a gold mine, they'd be everywhere like they were in the 70s. Beyond the cost of purchase and maintenance and the licenses, you must also consider the amount of time invested. Maintaining and cleaning games takes time as we all know. In addition to that, these licenses have to be filled out for each game. I've seen them. This isn't a simple web-form and paypal transaction. There's a significant time investment involved in maintaining licenses for games in Quebec. For a small business owner, they must decide what's best for their business in order to grow and maintain profitability, and the simple fact is that 99% of North Star customers don't base their purchase behaviour on extra balls and specials. Don't believe me? Go on a Friday or Saturday and watch the players. They aren't hardcore enthusiasts. They're just people out to have a good time.

Now, I agree that the pure pinball experience includes extra balls and specials. In my opinion, North Star has been put into a tough spot by the government. Want to do something about it? Write your member of the National Assembly. Create a petition that demands that extra balls and specials not be unfairly taxed. Write emails, make phone calls. Demanding that people flock to the Facebook page of a small business to complain is cowardice. Why in the world would you spend your time attacking the little guy instead of demanding that they get fair treatment from the government? Remember that these license fees are NOT refundable. I can assure you that North Star does not get a single cent back for these licenses. North Star is not the one you need to blame here. This extra ball tax is the result of government bureaucrats who don't understand the first thing about pinball and think that earning an extra ball or a free game is equivalent to gambling. We know that it isn't and that pinball is primarily a skill game. I would urge every MAACA member who lives in Quebec to take action on this today rather than complain on a message board or on a Facebook page.

I would also urge everyone in Montreal to go to the bar and support them. I don't mean just going on $5 Sundays, I mean buy some tokens. Buy drinks. Buy a pickled egg or two. These folks work extremely hard and ain't nobody getting rich on this. If you honestly think that they don't deserve your patronage because they don't want to pay the extra ball tax, then I implore you to stay at home. I also saw someone complain about games costing $1, but I would remind you that inflation means that $0.25 in 1978 is about $0.90 today, so cram it with that old chestnut. Games are more expensive than they've ever been, but they're also deeper and more complex from a rules standpoint. North Star also operates bloody antique coin-operated games in a condition you rarely see elsewhere.

-Matt
Last edited by mattnb on Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Fifty
MAACA Mega Contributor
Posts: 2217
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:50 pm
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Has liked: 234 times
Been liked: 42 times

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal)

Post by Fifty »

Chnillapoil wrote:
Sparky wrote:So... you want them to pay... to give you free games?
Stop, I'm about to cry........

145$ par année LOL
Wait... $145 per year? Is that per machine or does it include all the pins.

Does the city of Montreal even have bylaw officers that go around and check this stuff? THAT seems like a bigger waste of tax money.

User avatar
cap
MAACA Mega Contributor
Posts: 1215
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:19 pm
Location: Laval
Been liked: 30 times

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal)

Post by cap »

Fifty wrote:Wait... $145 per year? Is that per machine or does it include all the pins.
Does the city of Montreal even have bylaw officers that go around and check this stuff? THAT seems like a bigger waste of tax money.
Montreal had a by-law that prohibited pinball on most of its territory until a couple years ago.

The license is sold by Quebec, the city has nothing to do with it. Quebec abandoned the license very recently, but it appears the caveat is you can't give free games anymore unless you pay the old fee.
The penalty for not paying the license was very steep a long time ago. They would ceize the machine immediately. I don't know what the penalty is nowadays.
Interestingly, last summer Alouette was selling a lot of machines they bought from the government. These machines were ceized 20 years ago and sat in a warehouse all this time.
Last edited by cap on Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
Judge Dredd, Road Show, Last Action Hero, Rocky & Bullwinkle, Stargate, F14 Tomcat

User avatar
Fifty
MAACA Mega Contributor
Posts: 2217
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2014 2:50 pm
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Has liked: 234 times
Been liked: 42 times

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal)

Post by Fifty »

cap wrote: Montreal had a by-law that prohibited pinball on most of its territory until a couple years ago.

The license is sold by Quebec, the city has nothing to do with it. Quebec abandoned the license very recently, but it appears the caveat is you can't give free games anymore unless you pay the old fee.
The penalty for not paying the license was very steep a long time ago. They would ceize the machine immediately. I don't know what the penalty is nowadays.
Interestingly, last summer Alouette was selling a lot of machines they bought from the government. These machines were ceized 20 years ago and sat in an warehouse all this time.
This is getting more depressing with each post. 20 years ago they were seized? I'm sure the tax payer was on the hook for the storage fees all those years. Just think of the money being wasted everywhere because of stupid things like this. Why couldn't I have owned that storage warehouse? Ugh...

How would Quebec even know the games are giving out free games? What is the penalty nowadays? I doubt they would seize the machines.

Even then, an extra ball is part of gameplay. I've never referred to it as a FREE ball. It's just something you earn in game, just like you would earn 100 points. Laws are ridiculous. If a ball drains at North Star without hitting anything are the Ball Saves turned off? You lost a ball. It is giving you a FREE plunge.

User avatar
Chris Silver
MAACA Mega Contributor
Posts: 3076
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:41 pm
Location: Hawkesbury, Nowhere Ontario
Has liked: 72 times
Been liked: 79 times

Re: Northstar Pinball bar (Montreal), no free games

Post by Chris Silver »

I fix airplanes. That’s my business. I stick to what I know best. I’m sure there are very good reasons why things are set up the way they are there. I would never try to tell someone how to run their‘s. I don’t understand that stuff.

The one thing I do know, even if I was a millionnaire there is no feeling better than hearing that coil go off when you win a free game.
Pins: Spirit, Centaur II, Af-Tor, Avatar, Embryon, Timeline, Baby Pac Man, SkyJump, Night Moves, Split Second
Gone: Space Station, Top Score, Flash Gordon, Solar Fire, Haunted House, Fire (x2), Vector, Bally Playboy, Tropic Isle, Beat the Clock, Blue-Chip, Disco, Punk!, Lightning, Time Fantasy, 8 Ball Deluxe LE, Double Dragon, Stellar Wars, Alien Poker, Panthera, Elektra, Blackout, Black Hole, Black Knight, Silverball Mania
WTB: Medieval Madness, Rush
Its better to have played and lost than never to have played at all.

Post Reply