Gottlieb Spiderman Solenoid Lock Up

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Timinator
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Gottlieb Spiderman Solenoid Lock Up

Postby Timinator » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:14 pm

So, replaced the 17891 solenoid coil on Spidey for the 5 drop target bank. It blew the 2A fuse under the playfield, replaced it and now it locks up when I power it up, so I shut it off because I don't want to burn the coil or start melting wires. Any ideas? Probably a newbie mistake, but would appreciate the help. Thanks!
Haves: Centipede Cocktail Table, SFII, Star Wars Racer, Shinobi, Amazing Spider-man (pin), Black Knight, DE Star Wars, Operation Wolf, 60 in 1 Cocktail
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Flyer666
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Re: Gottlieb Spiderman Solenoid Lock Up

Postby Flyer666 » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:18 pm

Did it would work before you changed the coil??? if yes forget the last one the check list
did you reverse the leads on the coil???
Check the resistance of the coil, check to for a short.
Check the doide on the coil.
check the switch and see if it is closed
check the transistor on the mpu board related to the solenoid.


That should get you going.


My bet its a short ( then again I took the devils in 6)

Larry
"A 30 year old game will never, EVER be "100%". That's part of the charm of the game and of the hobby.. fixing is part of the hobby. It's like wrenching on an old car, and often therapeutic"

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OTTOgd
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Re: Gottlieb Spiderman Solenoid Lock Up

Postby OTTOgd » Tue Jun 12, 2012 7:58 pm

SELL! SELL! SELL! System 80's are a headache!

:D

Yeah, check the coil resistance and diode but the right bank/solenoid 6/Q64 (2N3055 (bottom left on the driver board)) is probably be shot. Check it. Also check the other little transistor Q63 (MPS U45) as well. Then make sure all your ground mods are done.

... then play on, true believer!

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Timinator
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Re: Gottlieb Spiderman Solenoid Lock Up

Postby Timinator » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:28 am

Flyer666 wrote:Did it would work before you changed the coil??? if yes forget the last one the check list
did you reverse the leads on the coil???
Check the resistance of the coil, check to for a short.
Check the doide on the coil.
check the switch and see if it is closed
check the transistor on the mpu board related to the solenoid.


That should get you going.


My bet its a short ( then again I took the devils in 6)

Larry


So, checked to see if I had the wires reversed, that wasn't the case. The coil was having the same issues before replacing it, figured it was the coil, but wrong on my part I'm guessing. I have a Ni-Wumpf driver board in it now, so hopefully that covers the board issues. My next still is to do the ground mods in the next little while to make sure that isn't an issue as well, I would feel better having that done whether it was the issue or not. Then move through the rest of your check lists. Thanks for the help and I'll keep updating my posts. Cheers!
Haves: Centipede Cocktail Table, SFII, Star Wars Racer, Shinobi, Amazing Spider-man (pin), Black Knight, DE Star Wars, Operation Wolf, 60 in 1 Cocktail
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sylvain
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Re: Gottlieb Spiderman Solenoid Lock Up

Postby sylvain » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:56 am

The associated drive transistor on the driver board is most probably now shorted - it will need to be replaced.

Make sure the MPU-Driver harness has been repinned or is new, or tested good for each pin.
The female pins inside the harness are often weak, broken or corroded, especially if an earlier MPU had acid damage.
Make sure there is no corrosion under the finger connectors of the MPU, especially the connector leading to the driver.
Performing the ground mod will not rectify this issue.

The earlier post from Flyer666 is sound.
Any time a shorted coil, reversed wire to the coil, shorted diode across the coil (can occur if lugs were overheated during soldering), diode installed backwards on the coil, or missing diode on the coil - this is a garantee the associated drive transistor on the driver board will short at the 1st impulse.

Keep using the proper fuse rating (1A or 2A SB) as well - I have seen too many cases of overfusing.
Although it might not protect the transistor, a proper fuse will definitely protect the coil.

Good luck & Cheers,
- Sylvain.
Looking for Bally Star-Jet, Capersville or The Wiggler, Williams Magic City, Grand Lizard, Swords of Fury, 1986 Pinstar Gamatron, and a few others.
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Timinator
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Re: Gottlieb Spiderman Solenoid Lock Up

Postby Timinator » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:04 am

sylvain wrote:The associated drive transistor on the driver board is most probably now shorted - it will need to be replaced.

Keep using the proper fuse rating (1A or 2A SB) as well - I have seen too many cases of overfusing.
Although it might not protect the transistor, a proper fuse will definitely protect the coil.

Good luck & Cheers,
- Sylvain.



Sylvain, do you mean the drive transistor on the Ni-Wumpf board?

As for parts, transistors, diodes, fuses, where is a good place to pick some up?

Thanks!
Haves: Centipede Cocktail Table, SFII, Star Wars Racer, Shinobi, Amazing Spider-man (pin), Black Knight, DE Star Wars, Operation Wolf, 60 in 1 Cocktail
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sylvain
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Re: Gottlieb Spiderman Solenoid Lock Up

Postby sylvain » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:11 am

Timinator wrote:Sylvain, do you mean the drive transistor on the Ni-Wumpf board?

As for parts, transistors, diodes, fuses, where is a good place to pick some up?

Thanks!

Yes.

For electronic parts, I often purchase from Ed at Great Plains Electronics, sometimes from eBay.
Looking for Bally Star-Jet, Capersville or The Wiggler, Williams Magic City, Grand Lizard, Swords of Fury, 1986 Pinstar Gamatron, and a few others.
Collecting & repairing electro-mechanical and solid state pinball machines with quality and care for over 35 years.
Serious and fun hobby, powerful nostalgia !

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Timinator
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Re: Gottlieb Spiderman Solenoid Lock Up

Postby Timinator » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:12 pm

So I did all the ground mods to it and now the MPU board seems not to be booting up. I have no displays but lights on the playfield. If I leave it on for a few seconds the lights flicker, and looks like ghosting on the displays. Any ideas?
Haves: Centipede Cocktail Table, SFII, Star Wars Racer, Shinobi, Amazing Spider-man (pin), Black Knight, DE Star Wars, Operation Wolf, 60 in 1 Cocktail
Gone, but not forgotten: Pharaoh, Wild Fyre, Dracula, Chicago Coin's Homerun, Midway's One Million BC, Golden Axe, Sinbad

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Timinator
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Re: Gottlieb Spiderman Solenoid Lock Up

Postby Timinator » Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:00 pm

I had the boards rebuilt and checked over. Still blowing the 1 amp fuse on it. Ground mods are done as well. Here is a pic of my solenoid with the diode and wires, just to make sure I did them right
Solenoid Wires (480x640).jpg
The wire coming from the fuse is on the right side of the solenoid with the band of the diode on the same side.
Haves: Centipede Cocktail Table, SFII, Star Wars Racer, Shinobi, Amazing Spider-man (pin), Black Knight, DE Star Wars, Operation Wolf, 60 in 1 Cocktail
Gone, but not forgotten: Pharaoh, Wild Fyre, Dracula, Chicago Coin's Homerun, Midway's One Million BC, Golden Axe, Sinbad

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sylvain
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Re: Gottlieb Spiderman Solenoid Lock Up

Postby sylvain » Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:32 pm

Compare the orientation of the diode and 2 wires on-a-lug on that coil, with the 2 wires on-a-lug and diode orientation
on another coil. The diode orientation on the replacement coil should match the other existing coils and diode's orientation.
Edit - or wire color/trace. Cannot see from the pic.

If the new replacement coil was wired backwards, then the drive transistor for it on the driver board is now most probably bad
(shorted) even if it was replaced before.

Similarly, if the diode is overheated during the soldering, it might short. That too would take the drive transistor.
Or, if the diode is not soldered properly on the coil (loose connection, cold or poor solder joint),
then a high voltage spike will reach the drive transistor during the release of the coil, and it will short the drive transistor.

... yeah, it does not take much to short a drive transistor !

Cheers,
- Sylvain.
Looking for Bally Star-Jet, Capersville or The Wiggler, Williams Magic City, Grand Lizard, Swords of Fury, 1986 Pinstar Gamatron, and a few others.
Collecting & repairing electro-mechanical and solid state pinball machines with quality and care for over 35 years.
Serious and fun hobby, powerful nostalgia !

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Timinator
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Re: Gottlieb Spiderman Solenoid Lock Up

Postby Timinator » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:42 am

sylvain wrote:
... yeah, it does not take much to short a drive transistor !

Cheers,
- Sylvain.



So, got all my parts together and spent some time last night working on it. Put new harnesses from Power Supply, Drive to MPU, replaced drive transistor on board, soldered in the ground mods (just to make sure ;) ). And....the solenoid is working finally! Much better game when it works, still slow player though! I'm thinking it was the transistor, or a combo of all things together giving me grief! Thanks for the help, I'll post pics of the pin when I get my new backglass.

Cheers!
Haves: Centipede Cocktail Table, SFII, Star Wars Racer, Shinobi, Amazing Spider-man (pin), Black Knight, DE Star Wars, Operation Wolf, 60 in 1 Cocktail
Gone, but not forgotten: Pharaoh, Wild Fyre, Dracula, Chicago Coin's Homerun, Midway's One Million BC, Golden Axe, Sinbad

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Re: Gottlieb Spiderman Solenoid Lock Up

Postby Blackghost4 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:27 pm

Hi Timinator
Can you PM me please. I would need to talk to you cause I have the same issue and I could use your input.
Thanks
Fernando
Gottlieb Amazing Spider-Man (1980) Gottlieb Swing Along (1963) Williams Expo (1969)
Gottlieb Operation Thunder (1992) Gottlieb Bad Girls (1988)
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Re: Gottlieb Spiderman Solenoid Lock Up

Postby Blackghost4 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:31 pm

My Spiderman is now up and running. Thanks to Robi ( Pinballmafia ) for fixing my boards and coming over to get it going again.
I really appreciated that.
Thanks Again
Gottlieb Amazing Spider-Man (1980) Gottlieb Swing Along (1963) Williams Expo (1969)
Gottlieb Operation Thunder (1992) Gottlieb Bad Girls (1988)
Project: Gottlieb Genesis (1986)
Gone: Williams F-14 Tomcat

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Re: Gottlieb Spiderman Solenoid Lock Up

Postby Honey Badger » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:56 pm

Glad to hear Fernando. Robbi is one of the good people in this hobby. Good work Robbi!
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Timinator
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Re: Gottlieb Spiderman Solenoid Lock Up

Postby Timinator » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:03 pm

Sorry late to the party! In the end mine was both a board issue and one bad ground on the plug. Good to hear you got your Spidey working Blackghost!
Haves: Centipede Cocktail Table, SFII, Star Wars Racer, Shinobi, Amazing Spider-man (pin), Black Knight, DE Star Wars, Operation Wolf, 60 in 1 Cocktail
Gone, but not forgotten: Pharaoh, Wild Fyre, Dracula, Chicago Coin's Homerun, Midway's One Million BC, Golden Axe, Sinbad



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