So I am working on another Arrangeball called Hustler (unrelated to the porn mag) from Cait. This one is SS but with very basic ICs, no CPU or clock.
What I've done so far:
- Replaced weak/burnt 2182 bulbs. By luck I had a box of those
- Cleaned (ultrasonic) the payout mech. It was gummed up and not smooth. Missing 1 spring but working ok though.
- I was sure all was working as designed until I tried specific combinations. Turns out this game is like it's EM counterpart. The lights on the bingo board are lit directly by the switches, which then send that voltage to the main board. This means the "CPU" isn't necessarily aware that the switches are on, although when playing it the board lights up so it 'seems' good. Turns out about half the switches seem like they aren't registering. Upon further investigation I realized they are muliplexed via a 555 timer and 74150. As I have no way of testing these ICs I am deducing that it's the 555 IC that's faulty. Not uncommon on other devices. This would make the "CPU" only read half the switches, which seems to be what's happening. The 555 has a weird soldering job and may be shorting so will check first but will order a 555 if that's not the problem.
More pics to follow.
Attachments
Last edited by mrmikeman on Fri Jan 10, 2025 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Well my initial assessment of the function of the 555 timer chip was incorrect. It's a blinker circuit, not part of the multiplexing. Will have to trace out the data lines and try to figure out how it's multiplexing without a clock/cpu. I also now think that the multiplexing is not the problem. It's more of an interference issue when tallying multiple wins. Each payout works as designed individually. When I combine wins (or apply the 2X bonus) then nothing works right. This is all done via TTL ICs. No CPU, RAM, or other modern components. How hard can it be?? lol
I also need to consider if capacitors could be the issue. They look newer-ish but the soldering is original so I have to assume that they are all seemingly original (1975) - need to test but when in-circuit it's difficult.
PINS: Labyrinth (#21) Jurassic Park LE (#449) JAWS Premium Scooby Doo CE (#141) Looney Tunes CE (#086) MultiMorphic P3 with all modules except Lexy Lightspeed Star Wars Prem Star Trek the Next Generation
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Seeburg STD2 Entertainer - Converted to MP3 while retaining the original look and feel. *FOR SALE - $500
NSM Emerald Ice CD(100) wall hanger juke. *FOR SALE - $1400
Gone but not forgotten
So many... Lexy Lightspeed, Recel Lady Luck, Gtb Pro-Football, CCrLE, WOZ ECLE, Stern POTC, Star Trek Pro, MMrRE, Stranger Things LE, Dr Who, RFM, SWEP1, Road Show, Monster Bash, Twilight Zone, Lord of the Rings, Simpsons Pinball Party, Demolition Man, Terminator 2, Funhouse, Tales from the Crypt, High Speed, Bad Cats, Flintstones, WWF Royal Rumble, Laser War, Laser Ball, Silver Slugger, Batman Forever, Pinbot, 6 Million Dollar Man, Galaxy, Meteor, Countdown, Hot Tip(SS), and others I just can't think of lol.
I wonder if it would help if I brought you the Glory Ball machine as well so you could compare? I think Sylvain had worked on Glory Ball a few years back.
Might help make it easier to test hunches via comparison? They aren't the same, but similar theory of operations.
I was hoping to swap them out after I fix this one but maybe having both would help. I was trying to save you a road trip.
PINS: Labyrinth (#21) Jurassic Park LE (#449) JAWS Premium Scooby Doo CE (#141) Looney Tunes CE (#086) MultiMorphic P3 with all modules except Lexy Lightspeed Star Wars Prem Star Trek the Next Generation
JUKES
Seeburg STD2 Entertainer - Converted to MP3 while retaining the original look and feel. *FOR SALE - $500
NSM Emerald Ice CD(100) wall hanger juke. *FOR SALE - $1400
Gone but not forgotten
So many... Lexy Lightspeed, Recel Lady Luck, Gtb Pro-Football, CCrLE, WOZ ECLE, Stern POTC, Star Trek Pro, MMrRE, Stranger Things LE, Dr Who, RFM, SWEP1, Road Show, Monster Bash, Twilight Zone, Lord of the Rings, Simpsons Pinball Party, Demolition Man, Terminator 2, Funhouse, Tales from the Crypt, High Speed, Bad Cats, Flintstones, WWF Royal Rumble, Laser War, Laser Ball, Silver Slugger, Batman Forever, Pinbot, 6 Million Dollar Man, Galaxy, Meteor, Countdown, Hot Tip(SS), and others I just can't think of lol.
I can but I want to swap out the 50 year old capacitors first. I think it may be the problem. Rapid firing of the payout coil might be causing a voltage drop due to dried out caps. Removing the chips isn’t really an option unless I am replacing. 50 year old PCB. I have the right desoldering tools/station I just prefer not to take a chance.
Also I find a digital voltmeter to be better than a logic probe for these old chips. Some of these TTL fail in a way that gives ambiguous voltages around 2-3v instead of clear high-low signals. A logic probe won’t necessarily show that.
If the caps aren’t the problem then next is in-circuit probing.
PINS: Labyrinth (#21) Jurassic Park LE (#449) JAWS Premium Scooby Doo CE (#141) Looney Tunes CE (#086) MultiMorphic P3 with all modules except Lexy Lightspeed Star Wars Prem Star Trek the Next Generation
JUKES
Seeburg STD2 Entertainer - Converted to MP3 while retaining the original look and feel. *FOR SALE - $500
NSM Emerald Ice CD(100) wall hanger juke. *FOR SALE - $1400
Gone but not forgotten
So many... Lexy Lightspeed, Recel Lady Luck, Gtb Pro-Football, CCrLE, WOZ ECLE, Stern POTC, Star Trek Pro, MMrRE, Stranger Things LE, Dr Who, RFM, SWEP1, Road Show, Monster Bash, Twilight Zone, Lord of the Rings, Simpsons Pinball Party, Demolition Man, Terminator 2, Funhouse, Tales from the Crypt, High Speed, Bad Cats, Flintstones, WWF Royal Rumble, Laser War, Laser Ball, Silver Slugger, Batman Forever, Pinbot, 6 Million Dollar Man, Galaxy, Meteor, Countdown, Hot Tip(SS), and others I just can't think of lol.
Also the Google machine helped. It’s all in Japanese so I didn’t realize that there was a payout limit of 5 credits. Saved me some headaches lol.
PINS: Labyrinth (#21) Jurassic Park LE (#449) JAWS Premium Scooby Doo CE (#141) Looney Tunes CE (#086) MultiMorphic P3 with all modules except Lexy Lightspeed Star Wars Prem Star Trek the Next Generation
JUKES
Seeburg STD2 Entertainer - Converted to MP3 while retaining the original look and feel. *FOR SALE - $500
NSM Emerald Ice CD(100) wall hanger juke. *FOR SALE - $1400
Gone but not forgotten
So many... Lexy Lightspeed, Recel Lady Luck, Gtb Pro-Football, CCrLE, WOZ ECLE, Stern POTC, Star Trek Pro, MMrRE, Stranger Things LE, Dr Who, RFM, SWEP1, Road Show, Monster Bash, Twilight Zone, Lord of the Rings, Simpsons Pinball Party, Demolition Man, Terminator 2, Funhouse, Tales from the Crypt, High Speed, Bad Cats, Flintstones, WWF Royal Rumble, Laser War, Laser Ball, Silver Slugger, Batman Forever, Pinbot, 6 Million Dollar Man, Galaxy, Meteor, Countdown, Hot Tip(SS), and others I just can't think of lol.
PINS: Labyrinth (#21) Jurassic Park LE (#449) JAWS Premium Scooby Doo CE (#141) Looney Tunes CE (#086) MultiMorphic P3 with all modules except Lexy Lightspeed Star Wars Prem Star Trek the Next Generation
JUKES
Seeburg STD2 Entertainer - Converted to MP3 while retaining the original look and feel. *FOR SALE - $500
NSM Emerald Ice CD(100) wall hanger juke. *FOR SALE - $1400
Gone but not forgotten
So many... Lexy Lightspeed, Recel Lady Luck, Gtb Pro-Football, CCrLE, WOZ ECLE, Stern POTC, Star Trek Pro, MMrRE, Stranger Things LE, Dr Who, RFM, SWEP1, Road Show, Monster Bash, Twilight Zone, Lord of the Rings, Simpsons Pinball Party, Demolition Man, Terminator 2, Funhouse, Tales from the Crypt, High Speed, Bad Cats, Flintstones, WWF Royal Rumble, Laser War, Laser Ball, Silver Slugger, Batman Forever, Pinbot, 6 Million Dollar Man, Galaxy, Meteor, Countdown, Hot Tip(SS), and others I just can't think of lol.
And here is a picture of the one I am converting to Arduino control.
PINS: Labyrinth (#21) Jurassic Park LE (#449) JAWS Premium Scooby Doo CE (#141) Looney Tunes CE (#086) MultiMorphic P3 with all modules except Lexy Lightspeed Star Wars Prem Star Trek the Next Generation
JUKES
Seeburg STD2 Entertainer - Converted to MP3 while retaining the original look and feel. *FOR SALE - $500
NSM Emerald Ice CD(100) wall hanger juke. *FOR SALE - $1400
Gone but not forgotten
So many... Lexy Lightspeed, Recel Lady Luck, Gtb Pro-Football, CCrLE, WOZ ECLE, Stern POTC, Star Trek Pro, MMrRE, Stranger Things LE, Dr Who, RFM, SWEP1, Road Show, Monster Bash, Twilight Zone, Lord of the Rings, Simpsons Pinball Party, Demolition Man, Terminator 2, Funhouse, Tales from the Crypt, High Speed, Bad Cats, Flintstones, WWF Royal Rumble, Laser War, Laser Ball, Silver Slugger, Batman Forever, Pinbot, 6 Million Dollar Man, Galaxy, Meteor, Countdown, Hot Tip(SS), and others I just can't think of lol.
mrmikeman wrote: ↑Thu Jan 23, 2025 5:00 pm
I can but I want to swap out the 50 year old capacitors first. I think it may be the problem. Rapid firing of the payout coil might be causing a voltage drop due to dried out caps. Removing the chips isn’t really an option unless I am replacing. 50 year old PCB. I have the right desoldering tools/station I just prefer not to take a chance.
Also I find a digital voltmeter to be better than a logic probe for these old chips. Some of these TTL fail in a way that gives ambiguous voltages around 2-3v instead of clear high-low signals. A logic probe won’t necessarily show that.
If the caps aren’t the problem then next is in-circuit probing.
You’re right — in most cases I go right to the oscilloscope but I just suggest the logic probe because it’s cheaper for most people if they don’t have one already.
If ever you need a chip off a board, drop in. I’m right around the corner and a have the right kit.
semicolin wrote: ↑Fri Jan 24, 2025 10:06 am
You’re right — in most cases I go right to the oscilloscope but I just suggest the logic probe because it’s cheaper for most people if they don’t have one already.
If ever you need a chip off a board, drop in. I’m right around the corner and a have the right kit.
Thanks for the offer I will keep it in mind. I do also have a scope but rarely ever need to use it TBH.
In this case I was fortunate enough to have caps of the right rating in my parts bin
Can’t wait to get started on the arduino conversion. That’s my jam lol. Bought a string of addressable RGB bulbs so I should be able to modernize the play a little with some color/effects.
PINS: Labyrinth (#21) Jurassic Park LE (#449) JAWS Premium Scooby Doo CE (#141) Looney Tunes CE (#086) MultiMorphic P3 with all modules except Lexy Lightspeed Star Wars Prem Star Trek the Next Generation
JUKES
Seeburg STD2 Entertainer - Converted to MP3 while retaining the original look and feel. *FOR SALE - $500
NSM Emerald Ice CD(100) wall hanger juke. *FOR SALE - $1400
Gone but not forgotten
So many... Lexy Lightspeed, Recel Lady Luck, Gtb Pro-Football, CCrLE, WOZ ECLE, Stern POTC, Star Trek Pro, MMrRE, Stranger Things LE, Dr Who, RFM, SWEP1, Road Show, Monster Bash, Twilight Zone, Lord of the Rings, Simpsons Pinball Party, Demolition Man, Terminator 2, Funhouse, Tales from the Crypt, High Speed, Bad Cats, Flintstones, WWF Royal Rumble, Laser War, Laser Ball, Silver Slugger, Batman Forever, Pinbot, 6 Million Dollar Man, Galaxy, Meteor, Countdown, Hot Tip(SS), and others I just can't think of lol.