Name that Juke

The place to discuss about all things related to jukeboxes!!
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Name that Juke

Post by R.A.B. »

This is a tough one and hats off to anyone who can identify this 1940's Canadian made jukebox. There, that is too many clues already, :? OK the cabinet was built by George Baker and the the guts I was told were AMI.
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Last edited by R.A.B. on Thu May 03, 2012 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Bally 1936 "Bumper" - North Star 1949 "Sea Breeze" - North Star 1950 "Richelieu" - Universal 1950 "Feature Bell" - Gottlieb 1952 "Queen of Hearts" - Williams 1960 "Ten Spot" - Gottlieb 1971 "Challenger" - Williams 1973 "OXO" - Bally 1976 "Bonanza"

Maxed out at 10 machines, no more. Un max de 10 machines, pas plus.
Une règle suivi guéri de tout. A rule respected can cure anything.

A philosophy of doing shall rule until the days when I can no longer "do" arrive. Because when I am too old to adjust an AX relay or relieve a woman friend from sighing, there will only be memories to fill my time. So, the task at hand is to build that RRSP of memories in order to joyfully cushion the later stages of life.

Personally prefer the exceptional qualities lurking beneath any normal state of affairs. Alas, our day to day is being promoted as extraordinary via a world wide web largely fueled by the new dumb & followed closely by the latest breed of unscrupulous scoundrels & judas goats. So, god bless the fool hearted, the crazed, and the railroaded all in good measure for they will likely inherit what is left of the earth after the screwheads are done with it. God damn darwinian primates, why do they refuse to evolve, even after all we should have learned from being dumb savages for so long.

"I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you, to be just like them. " - Zimmy

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Re: Name that Juke

Post by necro_nemesis »

Your right this is going to take some research.

Can't say it's a Seeburg I've come across.

Enlighten me please. Who is George Baker? Is this a famous designer like a Frank Lloyd Wright or the name of a manufacturing company who had a modest founder? :mrgreen:

Seeburg's biggest achievement in the late 40's was the Select-o-matic, their own mechanism that allowed for 50 45's to be played and worked reliably. Having the guts from an AMI has me guess this has to be early 40's since it pre-dates Select-o-matic. Unfortunately searching early 40's Seeburg takes me to a dead end when I look for this particular jukebox. It appears to be an oddball alright and not well documented from what I can see. Interesting to see the photo marked "Laniel Amusements" down the left side. If you pulled this photo and info from Laniel archive you may have a unique tid bit of poorly publicized history there.
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Re: Name that Juke

Post by Menace »

There was a company in MTL that made jukes that ceased operations in the 40's, but the name escapes me.

D

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Re: Name that Juke

Post by necro_nemesis »

There are two different jukeboxes in the photo. Both share mechanisms from '39 Seeburgs.

The V pattern selection panel is from a '39 Seeburg Casino. The other is a mechanism from a '39 Seeburg Classic or Vogue.

Image
Image

The jukebox patent filed here Mar 21, 1938 is filed by a Mr. Henry T Roberts, who at the time worked for Seeburg as an industrial designer and sales manager. This leads me to believe these are in fact Seeburg mechanisms and not AMI unless Seeburg had AMI produce mechansim for them in that era which I can find no reference to that issue.

http://www.hnwhite.com/Seeburg%20Years.htm

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Re: Name that Juke

Post by viperboy »

The push button arrangement is definitely prewar Seeburg. I'd say they are some kind of modernization kit someone came up with.

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Re: Name that Juke

Post by necro_nemesis »

I'm guessing it was George Baker.... the cabinet maker, :roll:
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Re: Name that Juke

Post by R.A.B. »

My first post was misleading, AMI mechanisms may have been used later by Laniel Amusements inside the cabinets they built. My sources are not as factual as the stuff on the net, and we have necro to thank for digging. I have been spending whatever spare time I have talking to old timers. Jean Robillard an employee at Laniel Automatic from 1967 to 1994, Jean-Pierre Lefebvre who started working at Laniel Amusements at twenty when they were still on Notre-Dame street in 1960, and who graciously gave me a pile of old photos of jukes and pins. As well, another long time Laniel tech Claude Sauvageau (whom I spoke to today) who still fixes jukes even in his eighties. In & through these conversations I am getting a better idea, however dotted with slightly contradictory info which I guess is to be expected. Most of these guys can't recall with pin point accuracy the events or what mechanism was in which cabinets they put together, so I am trying to piece it together with some help from the net and a few aficionados like yourselves

Claude told me today on the phone that they also had plain wooden boxes for ease of transport built by George for event & party rentals. They would stick a mechanism in there and fill it up with the clients type of favorite records on demand and let her play continuously. It was their job, and it looks like they did it well.

I can definitely post a few more photographs, and that is really all I can contribute, not being a jukebox expert by any means. One of these Montreal made jukeboxes was called The Laniel Special and another was called The Evans. Jack Murray an old employee from Regent Amusements in Ottawa told me that the founders' son Eric Levin still has an Evans in his gameroom. Regent bought all their equipment from Laniel, so a good guess would be that The Evans was built by Laniel as well, and maybe even George.

During the war years Laniel Amusements had to build their own cabinets and stick in other manufacturers mechanisms, maybe AMI 100's and lots of Seeburgs for sure. Laniel was stuck on Seeburg since their beginnings and for decades afterwards as their preferred product line. George Baker worked at Laniel Amusements, and was the wood shop "go to guy" for any cabinet work. The need for jukes during the war years was still high, and so crazy George built them. His favorite phrase while doing their jobs according to Claude Sauvageau was, "Alright & ready to drill holes." The latter paragraph I can pretty well claim as accurate from the info I have gathered so far.
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Last edited by R.A.B. on Fri May 04, 2012 10:34 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Bally 1936 "Bumper" - North Star 1949 "Sea Breeze" - North Star 1950 "Richelieu" - Universal 1950 "Feature Bell" - Gottlieb 1952 "Queen of Hearts" - Williams 1960 "Ten Spot" - Gottlieb 1971 "Challenger" - Williams 1973 "OXO" - Bally 1976 "Bonanza"

Maxed out at 10 machines, no more. Un max de 10 machines, pas plus.
Une règle suivi guéri de tout. A rule respected can cure anything.

A philosophy of doing shall rule until the days when I can no longer "do" arrive. Because when I am too old to adjust an AX relay or relieve a woman friend from sighing, there will only be memories to fill my time. So, the task at hand is to build that RRSP of memories in order to joyfully cushion the later stages of life.

Personally prefer the exceptional qualities lurking beneath any normal state of affairs. Alas, our day to day is being promoted as extraordinary via a world wide web largely fueled by the new dumb & followed closely by the latest breed of unscrupulous scoundrels & judas goats. So, god bless the fool hearted, the crazed, and the railroaded all in good measure for they will likely inherit what is left of the earth after the screwheads are done with it. God damn darwinian primates, why do they refuse to evolve, even after all we should have learned from being dumb savages for so long.

"I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you, to be just like them. " - Zimmy

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Re: Name that Juke

Post by R.A.B. »

These were taken on the sidewalk at 1815 Notre-Dame street, one on the snow. I guess they really wanted the daylight for these photos. Laniel Amusements moved to the infamous 151 Rockland road in 1961 and became Laniel Automatic Machines.
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http://www.montrealpinball.com
https://amusement.evolvo.com/

Bally 1936 "Bumper" - North Star 1949 "Sea Breeze" - North Star 1950 "Richelieu" - Universal 1950 "Feature Bell" - Gottlieb 1952 "Queen of Hearts" - Williams 1960 "Ten Spot" - Gottlieb 1971 "Challenger" - Williams 1973 "OXO" - Bally 1976 "Bonanza"

Maxed out at 10 machines, no more. Un max de 10 machines, pas plus.
Une règle suivi guéri de tout. A rule respected can cure anything.

A philosophy of doing shall rule until the days when I can no longer "do" arrive. Because when I am too old to adjust an AX relay or relieve a woman friend from sighing, there will only be memories to fill my time. So, the task at hand is to build that RRSP of memories in order to joyfully cushion the later stages of life.

Personally prefer the exceptional qualities lurking beneath any normal state of affairs. Alas, our day to day is being promoted as extraordinary via a world wide web largely fueled by the new dumb & followed closely by the latest breed of unscrupulous scoundrels & judas goats. So, god bless the fool hearted, the crazed, and the railroaded all in good measure for they will likely inherit what is left of the earth after the screwheads are done with it. God damn darwinian primates, why do they refuse to evolve, even after all we should have learned from being dumb savages for so long.

"I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you, to be just like them. " - Zimmy

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Re: Name that Juke

Post by necro_nemesis »

IMHO George's design was far nicer than the original Seeburg of the same vintage. It would be nice to see one of these restored to it's original condition.

Once it was available, transplanting a Select-o-Matic mechanism into a jukebox seems like the most elegant choice for machinery. It's relatively compact and self contained with it's library and tray mounting. It really is a gem of a mechanical device and is particularly reliable when it was later coupled with the Tormat memory unit. What Seeburg was able to achieve with a single motor, cam driven assembly and a single trip solenoid, other manufacturers had to use three or four motors with all sorts of loose and dangley bits. I would have to say my admiration for the Select-o-Matic mechanism simplicity of design and the early commercial application of solid state memory via the Tormat system is reason why I appreciate Seeburg jukeboxes. From the selection mechanism aspects Seeburg was likely 20 years ahead of their competitors in design. To give you an idea, my Rockola 450 has a pin bank system similar to one that Seeburg abandoned in the early 50's for a solid state solution and the 450 was built in 73.
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Re: Name that Juke

Post by R.A.B. »

I was told by Jean Robillard that the first photo on this thread was what they called The Laniel Special, I hope I wasn't lied to, :( but I have yet to see that exact cabinet on any Seeburg collector site. Here's a wider photograph which was reduced to create the first one I posted, I see that this original photograph was cut on one side. They look like modified cabinets and most likely not built from scratch.
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Bally 1936 "Bumper" - North Star 1949 "Sea Breeze" - North Star 1950 "Richelieu" - Universal 1950 "Feature Bell" - Gottlieb 1952 "Queen of Hearts" - Williams 1960 "Ten Spot" - Gottlieb 1971 "Challenger" - Williams 1973 "OXO" - Bally 1976 "Bonanza"

Maxed out at 10 machines, no more. Un max de 10 machines, pas plus.
Une règle suivi guéri de tout. A rule respected can cure anything.

A philosophy of doing shall rule until the days when I can no longer "do" arrive. Because when I am too old to adjust an AX relay or relieve a woman friend from sighing, there will only be memories to fill my time. So, the task at hand is to build that RRSP of memories in order to joyfully cushion the later stages of life.

Personally prefer the exceptional qualities lurking beneath any normal state of affairs. Alas, our day to day is being promoted as extraordinary via a world wide web largely fueled by the new dumb & followed closely by the latest breed of unscrupulous scoundrels & judas goats. So, god bless the fool hearted, the crazed, and the railroaded all in good measure for they will likely inherit what is left of the earth after the screwheads are done with it. God damn darwinian primates, why do they refuse to evolve, even after all we should have learned from being dumb savages for so long.

"I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you, to be just like them. " - Zimmy

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Re: Name that Juke

Post by AMX »

Ostie moi je capotte!!! Crisse que j'voudrais etre dans ces années là!!!
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Re: Name that Juke

Post by gmaranda »

Now this is a VERY interesting thread. Tks to anyone that added some tidbits of info about it. I learned a few things. Maybe one day I will get to see one of those up close and personal.

A huge tks for sharing

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Re: Name that Juke

Post by P1AG Montréal - pièces/parts »

Well, let's try and set the record straight here. First off that MTL PB guy is off his rocker. :lol:

Secondly, and more importantly, Michel Bergeron here at work has confirmed with 98% accuracy that the first picture of this thread is indeed what was called "The Laniel Special" build from the ground up by George Baker at Laniel Amusements in Montreal during the war years, and not a conversion from an existing juke of that era. Mechanisms were indeed Seeburgs. Michel knows about these Montreal made jukes because he saw old pictures of the cabinets being build iin Montreal. The late Jean Coutu had shared these with him when Michel worked as a sales person with "the man" himself. Michel also remembers asking Mr.Coutu if he could purchase one of the Laniel Specials stored in the basement on Rockland ave. Unfortuneately this never panned out, but chances are that they are still in Quebec somewhere because one day they were just gone.

Apparently it was fairly common practise during the 40's to build cabinets for mechanisims, because during those years that is all you could buy from the manufacturers who most likely had surpluses once they had converted their factories for the war effort.

Have a good week-end gents, and especially to our boys in Allentown. :D

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Re: Name that Juke

Post by R.A.B. »

Couple more photographs of some majestic looking jukes set up at the entrance of the old Laniel Amusements Machine Exchange storefront on Notre-Dame street and chemically captured during a springtime some 7 deacdes ago. Thought these would be appropriate for the here and now, especially on this beautiful sunny day in Montreal.

Good night.
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img028 (Large).jpg
http://www.montrealpinball.com
https://amusement.evolvo.com/

Bally 1936 "Bumper" - North Star 1949 "Sea Breeze" - North Star 1950 "Richelieu" - Universal 1950 "Feature Bell" - Gottlieb 1952 "Queen of Hearts" - Williams 1960 "Ten Spot" - Gottlieb 1971 "Challenger" - Williams 1973 "OXO" - Bally 1976 "Bonanza"

Maxed out at 10 machines, no more. Un max de 10 machines, pas plus.
Une règle suivi guéri de tout. A rule respected can cure anything.

A philosophy of doing shall rule until the days when I can no longer "do" arrive. Because when I am too old to adjust an AX relay or relieve a woman friend from sighing, there will only be memories to fill my time. So, the task at hand is to build that RRSP of memories in order to joyfully cushion the later stages of life.

Personally prefer the exceptional qualities lurking beneath any normal state of affairs. Alas, our day to day is being promoted as extraordinary via a world wide web largely fueled by the new dumb & followed closely by the latest breed of unscrupulous scoundrels & judas goats. So, god bless the fool hearted, the crazed, and the railroaded all in good measure for they will likely inherit what is left of the earth after the screwheads are done with it. God damn darwinian primates, why do they refuse to evolve, even after all we should have learned from being dumb savages for so long.

"I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you, to be just like them. " - Zimmy

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Re: Name that Juke

Post by AMX »

"Negociants en gros" !!!

T'as pas des photos de l'interieur du magasin?
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Re: Name that Juke

Post by R.A.B. »

AMX wrote:"Negociants en gros" !!!

T'as pas des photos de l'interieur du magasin?
La seule que j'ai trouver est sur mon site, dans la section "contact us", je vais la re-scanner ce soir a partir du document original pour qu'on puisse l'agrandir facilement.

http://www.montrealpinball.com/contact/

Non, Pascal, pas la photo de ma blonde, c'est l'autre photo du dept de service avec mon autre blonde Lady Robin Hood dans le fond - ouch !
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Bally 1936 "Bumper" - North Star 1949 "Sea Breeze" - North Star 1950 "Richelieu" - Universal 1950 "Feature Bell" - Gottlieb 1952 "Queen of Hearts" - Williams 1960 "Ten Spot" - Gottlieb 1971 "Challenger" - Williams 1973 "OXO" - Bally 1976 "Bonanza"

Maxed out at 10 machines, no more. Un max de 10 machines, pas plus.
Une règle suivi guéri de tout. A rule respected can cure anything.

A philosophy of doing shall rule until the days when I can no longer "do" arrive. Because when I am too old to adjust an AX relay or relieve a woman friend from sighing, there will only be memories to fill my time. So, the task at hand is to build that RRSP of memories in order to joyfully cushion the later stages of life.

Personally prefer the exceptional qualities lurking beneath any normal state of affairs. Alas, our day to day is being promoted as extraordinary via a world wide web largely fueled by the new dumb & followed closely by the latest breed of unscrupulous scoundrels & judas goats. So, god bless the fool hearted, the crazed, and the railroaded all in good measure for they will likely inherit what is left of the earth after the screwheads are done with it. God damn darwinian primates, why do they refuse to evolve, even after all we should have learned from being dumb savages for so long.

"I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you, to be just like them. " - Zimmy

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Re: Name that Juke

Post by R.A.B. »

Hey AMX - there ya go. The service dept at Laniel Amusements on Notre-Dame - circa 1949, maybe 1950. Bien poser pour la camera, en passant, ils sont tous mort. :roll:

Robert
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img031 (Large).jpg
http://www.montrealpinball.com
https://amusement.evolvo.com/

Bally 1936 "Bumper" - North Star 1949 "Sea Breeze" - North Star 1950 "Richelieu" - Universal 1950 "Feature Bell" - Gottlieb 1952 "Queen of Hearts" - Williams 1960 "Ten Spot" - Gottlieb 1971 "Challenger" - Williams 1973 "OXO" - Bally 1976 "Bonanza"

Maxed out at 10 machines, no more. Un max de 10 machines, pas plus.
Une règle suivi guéri de tout. A rule respected can cure anything.

A philosophy of doing shall rule until the days when I can no longer "do" arrive. Because when I am too old to adjust an AX relay or relieve a woman friend from sighing, there will only be memories to fill my time. So, the task at hand is to build that RRSP of memories in order to joyfully cushion the later stages of life.

Personally prefer the exceptional qualities lurking beneath any normal state of affairs. Alas, our day to day is being promoted as extraordinary via a world wide web largely fueled by the new dumb & followed closely by the latest breed of unscrupulous scoundrels & judas goats. So, god bless the fool hearted, the crazed, and the railroaded all in good measure for they will likely inherit what is left of the earth after the screwheads are done with it. God damn darwinian primates, why do they refuse to evolve, even after all we should have learned from being dumb savages for so long.

"I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you, to be just like them. " - Zimmy

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Re: Name that Juke

Post by AMX »

:D
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Seeburg DS, Seeburg AY, Seeburg 222, RockOla 418, AMI E-80
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Star Wars + ESB, 1942, 1943, Striker 1945, Arkanoid, Arkanoid Revenge Of Doh, Spy Hunter, Aero Fighters
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Re: Name that Juke

Post by R.A.B. »

OK, here's the icing on the Laniel Special jukebox cake.

The two founding fathers, Romeo and Edouard.
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Bally 1936 "Bumper" - North Star 1949 "Sea Breeze" - North Star 1950 "Richelieu" - Universal 1950 "Feature Bell" - Gottlieb 1952 "Queen of Hearts" - Williams 1960 "Ten Spot" - Gottlieb 1971 "Challenger" - Williams 1973 "OXO" - Bally 1976 "Bonanza"

Maxed out at 10 machines, no more. Un max de 10 machines, pas plus.
Une règle suivi guéri de tout. A rule respected can cure anything.

A philosophy of doing shall rule until the days when I can no longer "do" arrive. Because when I am too old to adjust an AX relay or relieve a woman friend from sighing, there will only be memories to fill my time. So, the task at hand is to build that RRSP of memories in order to joyfully cushion the later stages of life.

Personally prefer the exceptional qualities lurking beneath any normal state of affairs. Alas, our day to day is being promoted as extraordinary via a world wide web largely fueled by the new dumb & followed closely by the latest breed of unscrupulous scoundrels & judas goats. So, god bless the fool hearted, the crazed, and the railroaded all in good measure for they will likely inherit what is left of the earth after the screwheads are done with it. God damn darwinian primates, why do they refuse to evolve, even after all we should have learned from being dumb savages for so long.

"I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you, to be just like them. " - Zimmy

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Re: Name that Juke

Post by Moder4t »

Hi, I stubled upon this post and I doubt no one will ever answer si ce its 10 years old.

I am George Backer (people spelled it wrong) great grand-son. Hi son (George Backer jr) also worked with him at laniel, but on the road, delivering pool table.

I am just curious as if other people have info about him, he passed away in 1992, and my father also so I dont have many info about him. I am actually surprised that people praised his work.

I have a lot of black and white picture I could share if that post keep going. I also have his 1940 wurlitzer model 700 at home, he built it from 2 broken model 700 to make 1 working one. Still work to this day!

Anyway if people have more infos or know people who would have more infos I would love to hear about him!

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Re: Name that Juke

Post by semicolin »

Please do share!

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Re: Name that Juke

Post by cait001 »

Moder4t wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:35 pm Hi, I stubled upon this post and I doubt no one will ever answer si ce its 10 years old.

I am George Backer (people spelled it wrong) great grand-son. Hi son (George Backer jr) also worked with him at laniel, but on the road, delivering pool table.

I am just curious as if other people have info about him, he passed away in 1992, and my father also so I dont have many info about him. I am actually surprised that people praised his work.

I have a lot of black and white picture I could share if that post keep going. I also have his 1940 wurlitzer model 700 at home, he built it from 2 broken model 700 to make 1 working one. Still work to this day!

Anyway if people have more infos or know people who would have more infos I would love to hear about him!
Oh wow please do share any and all photos!
BTW I am also looking to find any old issues of Canadian Coin Box in case you have those in your possession? I went through the ones I have looking for George Backer in them, but I think it's mostly the executives that get featured... but you never know!
What years did they each work in the industry? Most of my CCB issues are out and will eventually get scanned, so as they're done I can search for his name.
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Re: Name that Juke

Post by Moder4t »

Unfortunatly I am not in possession of thoses. I will gladly post picture once I return home, I have to go through a lottt of boxes with picture in them, but I do recal I have seen picture of him and jukebox. I saw some with old laniel trucks also.

George senior I think worked there from the 2nd world war until the 70-80s maybe?

I heard story about him working on making radio for tanks while my great grand-mother was welding the tank wheel/tracks

Anyway once I get a chance I will share what I have :)

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Re: Name that Juke

Post by R.A.B. »

Moder4t wrote: Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:35 pm Hi, I stubled upon this post and I doubt no one will ever answer si ce its 10 years old.

I am George Backer (people spelled it wrong) great grand-son. Hi son (George Backer jr) also worked with him at laniel, but on the road, delivering pool table.

I am just curious as if other people have info about him, he passed away in 1992, and my father also so I dont have many info about him. I am actually surprised that people praised his work.

I have a lot of black and white picture I could share if that post keep going. I also have his 1940 wurlitzer model 700 at home, he built it from 2 broken model 700 to make 1 working one. Still work to this day!

Anyway if people have more infos or know people who would have more infos I would love to hear about him!
Merci Stephan de contribuer a ce sujet.

I know you are legit because very few people know that people at Laniel would call your grandfather (or earlier your great granfdfather) George Baker. They knew it was "Backer", but called him Baker for some reason. I found this out on the weekend talking to 80 year old Jean-Pierre Gauthier, jukebox tech from 1976-2001 at Laniel Automatic. I sent him this thread and he said that he remembers your grandfather, and that all he could tell me (for now) was that he was the type of guy to come into work and keep to himself. Quiet hard working guy, - and as for your great-grand father the cabinet maker, his favorite phrase as I mentioned in that ten year old original post was "ready to drill holes" he would be heard to say when he had finisihed putting together a cabinet in the wood shop on Notre-Dame street and most likely later on Rockland Road after 1961.

More to come.

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Re: Name that Juke

Post by Moder4t »

Thabks for the responce, I will try to get to the pictures that I have this week, sorry I am not super quick to answer!

Small trivia, their Real last name is actually Bachar (Polish) but my great grand-father only went to school for a single day, he had to work to help the family meet the end, so he wasnt able to properly spell is last name, so when he would wrote his adress on a letter, Bachar became Backer. Everyone else in the familly (mostly based around La Macaza) are still using the original Bachar name. And George Backer jr was actually his grand-son (my father), weird familly story, but might interest some of you guys! :-)

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